Never Recorded This style please help

[Gertok]

Hi, I have a band coming to record hardcore screamo. So If anyone here did it before pleasse share some secrets of what is important in the mix... I am trying to listen to something like that right now.

Web Site: MySpace.com - The Plague Is Eternal - DA STREEETS!!, Utah - Death Metal / Metal / Grindcore - www.myspace.com/theplagueiseternal

[loudlove69]

Well watch the levels like a hawk, most hardcore screamo bands want a lot of distortion, you know in a digital world that sucks.

Depends on how many tracks they want to do, are you charging them good $$ - or did you state an amount of tracks you would do for them. Only asking is because you can layer tracks with less distortion and still make them sound huge and loud. At least it works for me.

Are they bringing all their own equip, or can you sub in some midi stuff for them? Like drum kicks in midi or wave files can help a lot too.

Like I said watch the levels, I know a few hardcore guys and they are in my eyes NOT real laid back dudes, so they have a lot of wanting OVER THE TOP preformances even in the studio concept. Good luck to you..

[Gertok]

I am doing for free. 8-)

[loudlove69]

- you sound like me then - how many tracks can you provide them?

If you can talk to them about layers and to cut back on over the top great - but hell your guys could be smart intelligent hardcore dudes and willing to listen to your advice.

Around here I get more of a look like - "we know what we want" attitude, what they dont understand is you can give them that exactly that, but in a different method than they are used to.

Again good luck to you friend, may you BLOW them away with your mad ninja skills!!!!

[Gertok]

I don't care about amount of tracks I will record... I can only record 8 at a time. And what kind of makes me said that their drummer has 5 toms.... SO I am short on by 1 input. Any suggestion on what to sacrifice? I was thinking either micing with dynamic in the middle or hanging another overhead on top of two floor toms

[loudlove69]

Well the dynamic in the middle would more than likey give you the best results - in a overhead situation it will work but you will get more room noise I think.

But like they told me - always over and over - experiment!! - after it was like I kept hearing that in my head as I slept - EXPERIMENT!!! arrghh!!!

But I think you have the best idea with the dynamic though.

[Gertok]

So you recommend less gain on guitar but more tracks? I was planing on doing at least 4 2 per guitarist.

[loudlove69]

Yes - please take this with a grain of salt ok? - I know you might be friends with these guys - but after listening to what they had on the my space page the live recordings for the guitar, sounded better than the other recordings - but still the distortions is HUGE.

I understand where they are coming from being a guitar player myself - but if you do 4 tracks per each guitarist as i assume you said right - take the distortion down and try to **** it up a little with more mid-range and less treble. This has worked for me, but do some scratches and see how they like them. Every time I recorded guitars with MEGA distortion they sounded more thin and less appealing.

I think if you do what you are saying they will sound bigger with less distortion. But sound really good too..

[Gertok]

I've never seen these guys before. So 8-) No I am not a friend of them. What mic is usually used for this style of music? My ribbon mic should arrive today. I meant 2 per guitarist. Unfortunately I don't know about their technique, they just might sound crappy with low distortion

[loudlove69]

Well the ribbon will work fine and of course the industry standard - SM57 - can be used for really any guitar work.

You have a point about sounding crappy anyways - I had a guy that just has to play with compression and delay and chorus - I told him strip it down to bare bones we can add later - but NOPE that would not happen.

So now I am having to EQ like mad just to get a some what good sound.

ok so only 2 tracks for each one huh? - well you can work with that - now I see you are using logic rigt - you have plugins correct -I am sure apple covers those - I use Pro Tools LE - and I have a Mac laptop and do rough recordings on Garage Band and it sound really good too.

So if you can later add compression and EQ you can get the guitarssounding pretty good I bet.

[Gertok]

Oh yeah Logic has a lot of good plugins. The only one I did not like so far was pitch shift. But it is bad on a lot of outboard preamps too. The only thing that does it well is digitech whammy. and some expensive plugins. If you think that I will need to do more guitar tracks I can with no problem I was just thinking that it is an overkill at some point.

[loudlove69]

Na, do the 2 tracks and see what you get, if you have the time let them do it the way they want, then do it your way -bet your way will be better!!

But from hearing the music it is gonna be loud and distorted and I bet muddy - so those plugins might save you a lot of time.

let me know how it goes, if you want maybe you can send me some rough mixes you get - I would be more than glad to help you in anyway I can.

[Gertok]

Cool, I have Another question about so called vocals in this style of music. What mic?

I've read that people put LDC 3 feet away and SDC 6-10 feet away. And then choose one or the other. I've also read on one of the Brandon's posts that good old 58 should do fine.

I recorded my self last night with sm58 but it had some pops from b-p... So if i decide to use 48 I will have to put it on a stand and use pop filter on top of the metal mesh of 58

[loudlove69]

I use a pop filter for any mic really - people like to spit too much and I dont like cleaning them off!! LOL!!

I am using a Audio Technica AT2020 for the band I have in - their stuff is Metal, Scream - like a Sevendust - melodic then SCREAMING, then back to melodic - you know...

It seems to do quite well for them - they do get too close and overload the signal sometimes because they kind of weave back and forth like Eddie Vedder -

I have them going into a Presonus Digimax FS for the preamp - so i can control the input and not overload as long as they stay in one spot while singing.

Also I have used a SM Beta 58A - which again does petty good.

[Gertok]

I have Bluebird as an LDC, so will see what works...
Does bass in this style pretty much plays root notes of the guitar riffs?

[brandondrury]

I can't help you with Myspace. The quality is too low for audio engineering. Head over to Recording Reviews and post an mp3.

Brandon

[Gertok]

I did not record those. This is what band did before. I am just going to record them on saturday and monday.

[thesilentdrummer]

I don't care about amount of tracks I will record... I can only record 8 at a time. And what kind of makes me said that their drummer has 5 toms.... SO I am short on by 1 input. Any suggestion on what to sacrifice? I was thinking either micing with dynamic in the middle or hanging another overhead on top of two floor toms

So there are 3 rack toms and 2 floor toms? This depends on a lot of circumstances. First, make sure that he actually USES all 5. If not, don't what what he doesn't use (that is opposed to taking the tom OUT of the kit). If he does use every tom, you need to decide what is used more (probably broken up by rack or floor toms). If Rack is used more, mic each individually and put a mic in between the two floor. If the floors are used more, then mic them individually, then place a mic in between toms 1 and 2, then another between toms 2 and 3. Measure them out so that they are equidistant from the center of tom 2, as this will eliminate phase issues. If you can't decide, go with micing the rack toms completely and put the mic between the floor toms. This way, you won't have to screw around with phase.

For hardcore screamo metal, I don't think an overhead will suffice -- it would probably be too beatles sounding and not modern enough.

[brandondrury]

And what kind of makes me said that their drummer has 5 toms.... SO I am short on by 1 input. Any suggestion on what to sacrifice?

Yes. 1 tom! Odds are strong that he'll take one out and never know the difference.

I HATE these kinds of drummers. They are trying to steal your room mic or the kind of tracks that really create the vibe of the track and 99 out of 100 drummers with a giant drum kit won't use it anyway. You have to be slick to get them to cut down on their toms, but if you do, it's a lifesaver.

The funny thing is many modern drummers only use 2 toms and I don't notice anything less. In fact, drummers with 2 toms usually sound bigger.

If you can talk to them about layers and to cut back on over the top great

What in the world are you talking about? Why on earth would you want to remove the "over the top" quality of any band? That doesn't make sense to me.

So you recommend less gain on guitar but more tracks? I was planing on doing at least 4 2 per guitarist.

You'll be in chorus land without a doubt. Do your 8 tracks and then take it as a lessoned learned. A great sounding track on each side is always better than mediocre guitar sounds layered a billion times.

So now I am having to EQ like mad just to get a some what good sound.

When has that ever worked? I can't recall a time for me.

So if you can later add compression and EQ you can get the guitarssounding pretty good I bet.

My rule is if I need EQ on my electric guitars, I messed up.

[loudlove69]

[QUOTE=brandondrury;39905]Yes. 1 tom! Odds are strong that he'll take one out and never know the difference.

I HATE these kinds of drummers. They are trying to steal your room mic or the kind of tracks that really create the vibe of the track and 99 out of 100 drummers with a giant drum kit won't use it anyway. You have to be slick to get them to cut down on their toms, but if you do, it's a lifesaver.

The funny thing is many modern drummers only use 2 toms and I don't notice anything less. In fact, drummers with 2 toms usually sound bigger.

What in the world are you talking about? Why on earth would you want to remove the "over the top" quality of any band? That doesn't make sense to me. .

the over the top was the complete over distortion that the band is using, that was the first question - if you go to the myspace page you can hear they are what sounds like a Triple XXX with a distortion box, I have never had any luck with that much distortion in recording.

You'll be in chorus land without a doubt. Do your 8 tracks and then take it as a lessoned learned. A great sounding track on each side is always better than mediocre guitar sounds layered a billion times.


When has that ever worked? I can't recall a time for me..

I have to do this because the guitartist I was recording refused to remove all his delay compression and chorus as we recorded - too many effects going in and then try to get a good sound afterwards - maybe you have some advice for that - I tried to tell him to just go dry at first - add effects later.


My rule is if I need EQ on my electric guitars, I messed up.

Well if the guitarist will not allow you to help get a good sound then what else do you do to get that good sound?

[brandondrury]

the over the top was the complete over distortion that the band is using, that was the first question - if you go to the myspace page you can hear they are what sounds like a Triple XXX with a distortion box, I have never had any luck with that much distortion in recording.

Oh. To me "over the top" is used to describe vocal performances and things of that sort. I've never heard anyond describe "fizz" as "over the top". It's usually just fizz.

I have to do this because the guitartist I was recording refused to remove all his delay compression and chorus as we recorded - too many effects going in and then try to get a good sound afterwards - maybe you have some advice for that - I tried to tell him to just go dry at first - add effects later.

There are times when dry is best. There are times when you want all kinds of effects and junk on the recorded track. If the track requires weird, spacey stuff I almost always require that we get it right while tracking the guitars. I don't want to have to monkey with going for an "outer space" sound (whatever that is) when I'm mixing. I want to pull up the faders and be happy.

The question here is whether the tracks you recorded sound good with the effects on them. If the effects don't sound good I wouldn't record them. EQ will not solve problems caused by misused or bad sounding effects. It just doesn't work that way. Of course, it sounds like the guitar player liked the effects but you didn't. This brings up a whole new issue. If the tracks are so bad that you can't put your name on the project, don't. Give them their money back and move on. If the tracks aren't really that bad, finish the project as is. Bring up the faders and do your best. Move on.

Well if the guitarist will not allow you to help get a good sound then what else do you do to get that good sound?

Nothing. If you aren't allowed to do any tweaking, you go into "capture mode". You do your best. If the sound is really bad, a) you learn something new and change your mind or b) you follow my advice from above.

So musicians refuse to budge about certain things even though they may not cater to standards of what is "socially acceptable". These are either idiots or innovators. It's hard to say, but much of it the middle of subjectivity land. Some engineers are too aggressive about their views. So I don't know. It's your call.

It's best to develop some chrisma and do enough shitty recordings that you eventually make a few good ones so that the bands will trust your judgement.

Brandon