My Firebox Sinister Bug

[axmiha]

I'll just tell you my story with the Presonus Firebox interface.
Since my MOTU MKII 828 died for misterious reasons, and I can't get it fixed here in Brazil - I have to send it to the US, and it costs a lot, etc etc - I decided to buy something I can fix here in case of problems. So I contacted Synthex, this company that sells Presonus (and other brands including MOTU) and the guy suggested the Presonus Firebox, which was very adequate for what I need. I don't need 978 audio inputs and 798 preamps and so on, so I bought it. I installed according to the manual and the first surprise was that when I clicked to update firmware, I got a blue screen of death. Hmm, I restarted, reinstalled and this time it went ok. Updated firmware, went to Presonus site, got the latest driver and installed. Opened Nuendo, chose the Firebox ASIO Driver as my ASIO driver and wallah. It's working fine, very low latency, good sound etc etc. Recorded a guitar and a bass, then some voice with Sure mike, then some voice with the Crown PZM (using Fireboxe's 48v) and all worked fine. Then I started a tune as a test, and when I was recording the third or fourth track (MIDI track addressed to a Kontakt piano) I noticed that the MIDI was not being recorded. Then in 3 seconds, surprise number 2...crash. Nuendo freezed. I restarted and started the tune again, and it froze again. Only when recording MIDI, and at times it takes 10 minutes to crash, sometimes seconds. Well, from that day on, it's been like 3 weeks, I've been doing tests, going in forums, asking about, I formatted the HD and reinstalled everything, I installed the ASIO for All friver, I tried it on Cubase SX 3, went back to Nuendo, reinstalled the driver this time without any antivirus running, I did everything I could until last night I change computers, I put the FW card in another machine, installed Nuendo and Firebox and tried. And it worked! Or so I thought. When I was convinced that the bug was gone, and then changed the HDs and memories etc, went to work, and the bug came back. I could swear I heard a subtle satanic laughter in my brain! Then, suspecting the eerie connector used by Firebox for MIDI and SPDIF (the one that looks like a monitor connector - 9 pins something?) I tried a MIDIMAN midisport 2x2 to handle the MIDI. Then the bug was gone. The problem now was the MIDIMAN, which sucks. But the bug was really gone. When I change the ASIO driver to DirectX Full Duplex, it also works, but then the latency/buffer problem is unbearable. Also another problem; I can't uninstall the Firebox driver. It tells me "could not open INSTALL.LOG file"
SO....what is the problem? The Firebox ASIO driver, it looks like, right? If it's the latest driver from Presonuns webpage is it some incompatibility with me? Maybe they should put on the box "this driver has incompatibility issues with one Alexander Mihanovich" or something, because I can't find anyone else with this problem, and the guy at Synthex never heard of such a thing.
In any case if someone out there could illuminate this mystery it would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to give back the Firebox and change it for a M-Audio TLT1010, or maybe a very big hammer (in portuguese "marreta"). I'm just waiting to see if this ASIO thing has a solution - IF the ASIO is indeed the problem.
Best,
Alex.

[brandondrury]

I installed according to the manual and the first surprise was that when I clicked to update firmware, I got a blue screen of death.

Not a good sign!


I could swear I heard a subtle satanic laughter in my brain!
Yeah, I know that one!

Then, suspecting the eerie connector used by Firebox for MIDI and SPDIF (the one that looks like a monitor connector - 9 pins something?) I tried a MIDIMAN midisport 2x2 to handle the MIDI. Then the bug was gone.

This connector sends MIDI / SPDIF into the Firebox? Is that right? I'm guessing there is some kind of adapter thing that splits off into a standard MIDI connection or a standard RCA cable for the S/PDIF.

I've never heard of only MIDI on an audio interface being fried to the point that it causes crashes. I wish I had some advice for you, but if you are using a freshly formatted machine with the latest updates of Cubase / Nuendo and the latest drivers you should be in good shape.

As always, chipsets are an issue. Another major issue is the fact that some drivers (even though they are newer) do cause new problems. If you can find older drivers, I'd give those a try. This is why I never upgrade anything that isn't broken. New updates sometimes cause problems that didn't exist before.

Brandon

[axmiha]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

This connector sends MIDI / SPDIF into the Firebox? Is that right? I'm guessing there is some kind of adapter thing that splits off into a standard MIDI connection or a standard RCA cable for the S/PDIF.

Yes, it's a 9 pin connector and out of the connector comes 4 cables, 2 MIDI and 2 SPDIF. Check it out here There's a photo of the back of the interface.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

As always, chipsets are an issue. Another major issue is the fact that some drivers (even though they are newer) do cause new problems. If you can find older drivers, I'd give those a try. This is why I never upgrade anything that isn't broken. New updates sometimes cause problems that didn't exist before.

Hmm, I'll try that. I sent email to the tech guys at Presonus, let's see what they say. "ONLY NOW YOU LOOKED FOR TECH SUPPORT?????" Yes, only now...

Anyway, thanks a lot. I'll try the driver that came with the interface and see what happens. I remember someone told me "don't install the driver on the CD, go to the site and get the newest" etc. I'm not very optimistic at this point, but I'll let you know.

[axmiha]

So, I reinstalled Cubase 4 LE, the one that comes with Firebox and reinstalled the Firebox driver (v1.2). Nothing. The bug lives on! It's weird, it seems related to time. After a period of time it happens. I just opened a session, created a midi track, put a piano on and recorded a little bit. Then waited some 5 minutes, went for a coffee, came back, started recording again and there it was...no MIDI being recorded. (In fact the little lines of the midi signal you see being drawn on the channel track as you play acts weird, it flashes and it's like it's putting all notes on the start of the recording, very strange). Tried unclicking the sysex thing. Nothing. Nothing seems to work. Presonus replied telling me they're all screwed by some hurricane and will respond later, I'm still waiting.

[axmiha]

MAYBE I solved the problem. I went to another forum (Cubase.net - "Cubase Freezing While Recording Through Midi" thread). There the guys says "The Firebox needs Use System Timestamp checked", so I checked that on my Cubase (under "devices/device setup/MIDI port setup") and as far as I can tell after many tests, it seems to be working. No more sinister bug. If it comes back I'll write here.

Here's a note on the Steinberg page:
If you have persistent timing problems (shifted notes etc.) with native or emulated DirectMusic ports please check the option “Use System Timestamp” provided in the DirectMusic section of the Device Setup dialogue. This option uses another timing reference in your system when enabled.
The option "Use System Time Stamp" is also available for Windows MIDI ports since Cubase SE 3, SL & SX 3.1 and Nuendo 3.1.

Apparently not many people have this problem, but it's good to have this solution here for others to see, yes?
So ... why does Firebox need the "Use System Time Stamp"? And why don't they write that in big red letters on the package? I never had any such problems with the MOTU828.

[brandondrury]

So ... why does Firebox need the "Use System Time Stamp"? And why don't they write that in big red letters on the package?

This computer recording world opens up SOOOO many factors, that it's difficult to say. There are a billion things that can go wrong or be changed by some other program that unless you want to become a high end software developer, you'll never understand it.

As to the "big red letters", it's common for audio interface manufacturers across the board to utilize secrecy and I can't say that I understand it. I think this has quite a bit to do with not wanting responsibility for what the software (like Cubase) is doing. Of course, by being upfront they could save everyone some grief and made you a happier customer. Who knows!

Brandon