MIDI drum track mixdown

[bickforc]

Hi everyone

I'm very new to Cubase (LE the one that comes free with some hardware) and PC recording, but with your help I'm getting there (slowly!).

My latest issue is with mixing down a MIDI drum track into audio.

In the manual it says that, before you can export the song, all MIDI tracks have to be converted into audio.

So I tried just connecting the Output from the soundcard to the Input and started recording on an audio track.

The results were less than pleasing.

Even less so when I decided to put a reverb unit in line to give the drums a more live feel.

What should I do to make sure that the audio results are of a good quality?

PS Idiots guide if possible.

[brandondrury]

In the manual it says that, before you can export the song, all MIDI tracks have to be converted into audio.

Is this the exact wording of the manual or your understanding of the manual? I ask because it could be interpretted about 7 different ways.

I would expect (but I'm not sure) that Cubase LE would handles this in the same way that Cubase SX3 does. Because MIDI is just data, it has no sound until it triggers a synth or sampler. (This is all covered in my member's only guide)

So I tried just connecting the Output from the soundcard to the Input and started recording on an audio track.

If you are triggering synths and samples in Cubase, you should not have to convert those to wav files. You should just be able to export. Try it. Let me know if it works.

[bickforc]

Hi Brandon, thanks for your response,
In the online help it says:
"The Export Audio Mixdown function allows you to mix down all audio tracks, complete with effects and automation, into one or several audio files, in one of several file formats. The following rules apply:
All audio you hear on playback will be included in the mixdown file!
You can however choose whether you want effects and automation included in the mixdown, as described below.
Cubase LE can export to a number of different file formats, each with different options.
See File Format Specifics.
MIDI tracks are not included in the mixdown!
To make a complete mixdown containing both MIDI and audio, you first need to record all your MIDI music to audio tracks (by connecting the outputs of your MIDI instruments to your audio inputs and recording, as with any other sound source)."

Also I tried just exporting the song without doing anything to the midi tracks and they were indeed missing from the mixdown!

Does this mean that this is a limitation of LE and I would have to purchase SX3 in order to get that feature?

[brandondrury]

All audio you hear on playback will be included in the mixdown file!

MIDI tracks are not included in the mixdown!

Here's the problem. Because MIDI tracks do not make sound, they only trigger devices that make sound, I wonder if the second quote is just a poor way of explaining that MIDI is only data.

Cubase handles MIDI like this:
There is a MIDI Track
There is the output of the MIDI track to the VSTi.
There is the return of the VSTi to the Cubase mixer.

Let's dig a little deeper here. So when you hit play on your mix, your MIDI track triggers a VSTi within Cubase, right? What is it? A synth or sample? So when you render down the track in Cubase, are you not hearing the same thing in the rendered track that you heard when you hit play in Cubase?

Does this mean that this is a limitation of LE and I would have to purchase SX3 in order to get that feature?

I don't recall anyone else having this problem with Cubase LE. Let's hold off on that one for a second.


Brandon

[S Cavell]

I've always had to mixdown midi to audio tracks using SE and LE. I would recommend doing each midi track to its own audio track so you can adjust each back into the mix separately. Just mute all audio and all other midi except the current one being converted to audio. Set you markers and go to file, export, audio mixdown,.wav. And it will make a new audio track. Disclaimer: this is not the recommended way around this problem. you will have to adjust the levels again and might run into problems with your final mix because you've compressed that track twice? It works for me but I am an unprofessional. Proceed with caution lol.

[bickforc]

Again, thankyou Brandon for your prompt reply!

Originally Posted by brandondrury

when you render down the track in Cubase, are you not hearing the same thing in the rendered track that you heard when you hit play in Cubase?

There must be version/feature difference here or, more likely, I am being utterly stupid! But when I do an Export|Audio Mixdown of a track that contains a midi component, the midi'd track isn't there.
I'm at work at the moment, but when I get home I shall try S Cavell's suggestion.

Thankyou

[brandondrury]

I've always had to mixdown midi to audio tracks using SE and LE.

You always HAD to? Or you always did?

you markers and go to file, export, audio mixdown,.wav. And it will make a new audio track.

Hang on. This is the exact method for rendering an entire mix. If your VSTi's are being exported in this fashion, than there should be no reason why you woud HAVE to render the out put of yoru VSTi's to a wav file other than utility reasons (free up more VSTi slots, reduces CPU usage, etc).

There must be version/feature difference here or, more likely, I am being utterly stupid! But when I do an Export|Audio Mixdown of a track that contains a midi component, the midi'd track isn't there.

No need to call yourself stupid. We are all stupid! That's why we chose to get into recording. If we were smart we'd be getting back rubs by models.

Okay, so no if trigger MIDI drums within a VSTi in Cubase, those drums don't appear in your mix? If this is the case, but S-Cavell was able to use the export feature with VSTi's something is misconfigured in your Cubase. You'll need to hit the manual. I'm guessing this is a setting somewhere.

Have you tried a "real time export"? You can click this button on the render options page.
Brandon

[S Cavell]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Hang on. This is the exact method for rendering an entire mix. If your VSTi's are being exported in this fashion, than there should be no reason why you woud HAVE to render the out put of yoru VSTi's to a wav file other than utility reasons (free up more VSTi slots, reduces CPU usage, etc).

Yes the same process for rendering an entire mix, only used to create
a separate audio track for each VSTi. If MIDI is included in the mixdown
with audio channels it is not present after the mixdown(not audible) not
rendered to the mixdown with audio tracks.
I'm sure I've looked through configuration options for a solution but
none seem to arise.
I'll have to look into this some more 'cause I'm tired of doing it the
wrong way and I'm sure the final product will sound better if I
can render audio and MIDI channels together to an audio mixdown.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Have you tried a "real time export"? You can click this button on the render options page.
Brandon

I'll look at this feature thanks again.

[bickforc]

I've found the answer and it WAS me being stupid!!! Maybe I should go for that back-rub that Brandon mentioned!

A combination of all your comments set me on a path of investigation (aka "fiddling around until something happens to work").

I figured that it must have something to do with the fact that the "out:" parameter was not infact set to any VST instrument but was instead just set to "Microsoft GS Wavetable".

So eventually I landed on Devices|VST Instruments (F11) and set the first one to "Universal Sound Module" (they were both set to nothing when I first opened the dialog).

After that, I went back to the MIDI track and changed the "out:" to "Universal Sound Module". This (happily) resulted in a whole lot better drum sound than the MS one.

Only drawback was that it was now slightly out of sync with the rest of the track.

Undaunted, I went ahead and did the export (as you have been telling me all along) of just that MIDI track, choosing the setting "Audio Track" near the bottom of the Options Dialog.

Result!

All I needed to do then was, using the original MIDI track set back to "Microsoft GS Wavetable" as a guide, move the new audio track to the right by trial and error until they syncronised.

I then muted the MIDI track, fiddled with the EQ, added compressor and reverb and I now have a very acceptable sounding drum track.

Phew!

PS. I've no idea whether this was the right way of doing it but it worked! I'm sure in the process I confused a lot of very knowledgeable Cubasers out there.
If any of you have any comments on my "solution" I'd be more than pleased, in fact eager to read them.

[brandondrury]

I figured that it must have something to do with the fact that the "out:" parameter was not infact set to any VST instrument but was instead just set to "Microsoft GS Wavetable".

Ah. This makes sense. So you weren't using any VSTi's in your Cubase session.

So now it's time to figure out they problems with sync.

Brandon