Mic and tips for recording flute

[Starcross]

Hello all,
I'm new to the forum (directed here by a bandmate and another forum newbie, in10city) and thought I'd attempt to draw upon everyone's knowledge for some assistance in getting a good sounding flute recording. This has been one of our biggest challenges up to this point. In the past I've attempted to use anything from an SM58 to an AT 4033 or various combinations. We recently did a live show where we got some good results using a borrowed Beta 57.

Based on what I've read here so far, I'm gathering that the 4033 is a bad choice due to an overemphasis on high frequencies...So, I'll start with a clean slate. What would anyone recommend as far as mics, and any tips as to mic placement would be helpful.
Thanks in advance...

[DogpitStudios]

Before suggesting any new mics, I'm going to suggest that you take every mic you have (this includes $10 radio shack mics) and set each one up where they sound best when the flute is playd. I'm not sure what mics you have, but after doing this short test get back to us about exactly what you don't like about the way each mic picks up the sound of the flute.

As for mic placement, I don't know exactly how a flute produces tone, but my aunt is a proffessional and has been in many big new york studios to produce her CDs. I'll be seeing her in about 2 days, so I can talk to her about it and get back to you.

Ben

[In10city]

I guess it's time to dust off my old collection of radio Shack SM-58 wanna-be's and see what they sound like.

[Starcross]

OK, thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to get together with our flautist and give it a go. We have the 4033, plenty of SM57's and SM58's, a Carvin condenser, some old AKG vocal mics, a couple of EV's, and, well, that cheap Radio Shack stuff. I'll do some experimenting and report back here.

[dach]

This may or may not help....

I usually pick mics depending on the track and what purpose the flute plays...

but as far as micing, there are 3 basic positions... one is near the mouth to pick up breath sounds, one is near the exhaust pipe ;D and the other is several feet above the flute. If you are in a room with low ceilings, have the player sit if possible

[brandondrury]

I must admit that I've only recorded a flute one time in my entire life. The guy playing it was an amazing saxaphone player, but not an amazing flute player.

With that said, flutes are what I call "natural instruments". This means that a mic 2-4 feet away will probably sound fine. If it doesn't, you tweak. I know nothing about the specifics of a flute and therefore I have no tricks.

I'd be really careful using hyper / super cardiod microphones with the flute back too far because they can get exceptionally thin at great distances. This may or may not effect your flute recording.

In what mix is the flute going to be in? Is it by itself? Is it competing with rock guitar and big drums?

Brandon

[Starcross]

Thanks again everyone.

The flute will be used fairly extensively on this cd, at times with minimal accompaniment on acoustic guitar or keys, at other times pretty much with the full barrage of drum/bass/gtr/keys/kitchen sink.
There are also a few parts where the flute will be harmonizing with lead guitar melodies in moderately dense arrangements.

[brandondrury]

Well, I'd think that it would really need to cut in a dense mix and so you may get away with something like a AT4033 (but that can be one aggressive mic). Of course, the mic will dull up quite a bit if you put a bag over it, leave it in its case, or angle it a little. (The latter being the most realistic solution).

In the more sparse arrangements, you'll probably want it sounding a little "creamier". I'd reach for a ribbon microhone if you have one, but there are probably certain condensers that would be good for this.

In reality, positioning is the most important factor here (assuming the flute sounds good in the room).

Brandon

[cavedweller]

I have tried recording bansuri bamboo flute with my AKG perception 200. I mike it close , 4-6 inches from the blowing hole. The sound comes nice and fat but unfortunately there seems to be a rough edge to it - there is a bunch of sibilance (which seems to be in 5-6kHz range) also caught /amplified in the recording. Close range seems necessary to preserve the low-end. Any ideas? Does anybody know about AKG Perception 200's performance etc.? Thanks!

[cavedweller]

I have tried recording bansuri bamboo flute with my AKG perception 200. I mike it close , 4-6 inches from the blowing hole. The sound comes nice and fat but unfortunately there seems to be a rough edge to it - there is a bunch of sibilance (which seems to be in 5-6kHz range) also caught /amplified in the recording. Close range seems necessary to preserve the low-end. Any ideas? Does anybody know about AKG Perception 200's performance etc.? Thanks!

Hey folks! Nobody has thoughts on this??

[darlingtonflute]

speaking as a flautist, rather than someone who actually knows anything about tech stuff, i'd say to mic up the bansuri bamboo flute about a foot away from the body, but instead of right by the blowing hole, try placing it in the middle-ish of the flute, or towards the end. This is just from when i've had other people recording me, it seems that the sibilance comes from the air actually going over the mic, placing it away from the blowing hole should change that also, if you want to keep the richer tone, try placing a second mic behind you towards the end of the flute. sounds odd, but they tried it on me and liked it! not sure if it helps, but that's what i've seen

[Freddy G]

*************

[TonyB]

I have tried recording bansuri bamboo flute with my AKG perception 200. I mike it close , 4-6 inches from the blowing hole. The sound comes nice and fat but unfortunately there seems to be a rough edge to it - there is a bunch of sibilance (which seems to be in 5-6kHz range) also caught /amplified in the recording. Close range seems necessary to preserve the low-end. Any ideas? Does anybody know about AKG Perception 200's performance etc.? Thanks!

I just recorded flute last night. Outstanding flautist and sax player.

I used a 4050 about 12 inches from the end of the flute and a pair of NT-5s about 6 feet beyond (to counter the "rough edge" as you call it) and mixed both as needed. Why "as needed?" We recorded flute on 9 different songs...a couple were more like a rockish Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull) while others were a slow, ballad-like gospel song. Requires different ambience so to speak.

As Brandon said, I'd go with condensers.

Unfortunately I don't have any experience with the Perception 200's.

I haven't played around with the mixes yet, but I don't think I'll need to be doing any heavy EQing. I tracked it through my MIDAS with the 80hz HPF on it.

[TonyB]

speaking as a flautist, rather than someone who actually knows anything about tech stuff, i'd say to mic up the bansuri bamboo flute about a foot away from the body, but instead of right by the blowing hole, try placing it in the middle-ish of the flute, or towards the end. This is just from when i've had other people recording me, it seems that the sibilance comes from the air actually going over the mic, placing it away from the blowing hole should change that also, if you want to keep the richer tone, try placing a second mic behind you towards the end of the flute. sounds odd, but they tried it on me and liked it! not sure if it helps, but that's what i've seen

Very good point! I find a 2-mic approach works very well.

[dedymann]

to get a good sound when you recorded flute you have to have the microphones at least 3 feet or more from the fruit. I know it might sound better when you put it to 5 inch from one part of the flute but you looking for trouble trying to do that. also very important is the acoustic of the room you recording. you'll never get a good sound in your bedroom. David - http://www.freshcutsoundeffects.com

[brandondrury]

It always blows my mind when people imply "the only way to..." and specifically say "never get a good sound". The rules have been broken too many times to have such a rigid view and the word "good" is so meaningless that I'm struggling to see how a person could maintain such a viewpoint and maintain anything resembling logic.

The tips of getting away from the instrument (a good thing with most instruments most of the time) and recording in great rooms are definitely good ones, but I'm not going to risk my reputation on always/never because someone WILL prove me wrong.

Brandon

[paul999]

When I've recorded flute I only used 1 mic. I was about 2 feet back. I though it was great sounding.

[dedymann]

It always blows my mind when people imply "the only way to..." and specifically say "never get a good sound". The rules have been broken too many times to have such a rigid view and the word "good" is so meaningless that I'm struggling to see how a person could maintain such a viewpoint and maintain anything resembling logic.

The tips of getting away from the instrument (a good thing with most instruments most of the time) and recording in great rooms are definitely good ones, but I'm not going to risk my reputation on always/never because someone WILL prove me wrong.

Brandon

You are right - I should never use the words always and never. Yes you might get a great sound in a bedroom and yes you might get a good sound recording and instrument in a very close miking but it's unlikely and a lot of time it will sound good at first but later you'll realize there is a problem with the sound you thought was good.
Thanks for pointing it out David - http://www.freshcutsoundeffects.com

[Rob K]

For what it's worth, earlyish in my recording days I recorded a flute with an SM58 in my bedroom, plugged into a fostex 4 track which I used as a mixer to record into the stereo input of my Soundblaster soundcard. Applied a bit of EQ and reverb in Acid Pro 3 and it sounded amazing. To this day I listen to that recording and wonder if I could do much better with my now vastly more expensive gear!

To the OP: Don't assume that a new mic will solve all your problems - you might find that what you alredy have is more than adequate for the job!