Issues/Problems Recording - Troubleshooting advice needed!

[xfrancox]

So I have been having some issues lately with my home set up and I've hit my troubleshooting brick wall, I was hoping I could get help here.

First off my set up:
2.6 Intel Core 2 Duo iMac with most recent version of 10.5, 4 GB of RAM, Mbox2 with Pro Tools LE and the latest version of 7.4, Logic Studio 8 and an M-Audio Axiom 49. My mics include an SM57, an Audix OM2, and an MXL 2003. Monitors are M-Audio BX5A's with some unbalanced speaker cables. Unfortunately my power isn't the best it could be without a power conditioner and most everything (Computer, Monitors, and External drive) being plugged in to a power strip.


My problem:
The first issue I'm having is that I seem to be getting very low levels with my dynamic mics. I have to crank the pre on the Mbox2 almost all the way before I get decent levels but at that point my noise floor is very high and I'm usually clipping. I had an issue once occasion where I got almost no signal until the pre was slammed to the end and thats when my signal would "pop in". I restarted my system and checked all my connections and that problem stopped happening. I still however get very low signal until my pre is set to lets say between 4 and 5 oclock. I'm not sure why this is happening. I don't know if it's my mics, the Mbox, or my mic cable.

My second issue. I recently bought the MXL which is a large diaphragm condenser (http://mxlmics.com/condenser_mic/mxl2003/mxl2003.htm) from someone off CraigsList and was excited to come home and try it out. Everything worked fine and it sounded great. Fast forward a couple days to last night. I had some friends over to check out my new set up and we start messing with the mic, sounds fine. As we went on I was switching between Pro Tools, then Logic, then I'd open up Reason. I was definitely moving around a lot. While testing levels on the mic I noticed it started cutting out and there was a lot of noise. This problem persisted even when no one was talking in to it. It sounded like wind/rumble. My pre was set around 3 oclock on the Mbox give or take a little from time to time, phantom power on of course. Confused I checked that everything was connected properly, I tried switching DAWs, tried engaging the pad and filter on the mic, still the persistent problems. I decided to restart and log in to a profile I have set up that I use for dedicated music production that has no other apps running in the background. Still the same noises. It happens both in PT and Logic. I tried the second input and it still happened. It was even happening when the mic was just sitting there with no one speaking in to it or touching it. I don't have a pop filter but I don't think that's my problem. I'd also like to point out that while the mic was plugged in, phantom power turned on, and all DAWs turned off I saw the peak light on my Mbox flicking on and off as if it was still doing it although nothing was open. Also, my mic is in fact in a shock mount. My last bit of trouble shooting had me changing to my other mics to see if it persisted which it didn't for the time I spent trying it out.

So here I am. To help I have samples of the noise I'm talking about.

This is an example of what it sounded like when trying to record someone. Please excuse the silliness of what he's saying and I think he curses once but I'm sure most of you know talking off the top of someone's head can produce "interesting things", haha. It happens towards the middle to the end.

http://idisk.mac.com/xfrancox/Public.../Audio2_03.wav


This is an example of the noise as it was happening while the mic was just sitting there.

http://idisk.mac.com/xfrancox/Public...s/Audio102.wav



I don't really know what to try next. Is it how I have things plugged in, is it the Mbox or its phantom power, is it my mic and if so why didn't it happen the few times that I tested it before? I'm going to try a different mic cable later but the one I'm using has been babied in my room always wrapped properly. And what ideas do you have as to why my levels are so low with the other mics? This is all disheartening because I just started building this humble set-up up and I've sold most of my other belongings to pay for it, haha. Any help/advice would be amazing.

[brandondrury]

The first issue I'm having is that I seem to be getting very low levels with my dynamic mics. I have to crank the pre on the Mbox2 almost all the way before I get decent levels but at that point my noise floor is very high and I'm usually clipping.

Dynamic mics are low in level. It's the nature of the beast. For voiceover work, I have to crank my Vintech 1272 all the way up when using my Shure SM7. Cheap preamps will be more prone to noise. Toss a compressor plugin on the track you are recording, from the gitgo boost the output by 15dB or so and then turn down your preamp so there is no noise.

I'm concerned by the fact that you mentioned "clipping". What is clipping? Clipping is caused by the preamp being turned up too loud regardless of noise. It sounds like your levels are way too hot.

If you are recording mega loud guitar amps and still need to boost this much something is wrong.

It was even happening when the mic was just sitting there with no one speaking in to it or touching it. I don't have a pop filter but I don't think that's my problem.

Pop filters don't do anything if no one is talking/singing into the mic.

3 o'clock on a condenser mic strikes me as a ton of gain. Maybe the MXL in question is low in output, but I doubt it. Hook a few cables together and move the mic into another room. Does it still make the same noise? Is the noise different? More than likely it's just picking up noises in the room like the fan in your computer.

I'd also like to point out that while the mic was plugged in, phantom power turned on, and all DAWs turned off I saw the peak light on my Mbox flicking on and off as if it was still doing it although nothing was open.

This isn't a good sign if there was no sound in the room and no one was moving the mic around. It takes a loud noise, moving the mic, or a really cranked preamp to clip. Either that or something is malfunctioning.

In the future, please use mp3 files. 24 bit wav files are a pain in the ass to deal with on my home computer.

In the first case, I can't tell if you are overloading the mic by not using a pop filter or if the noise is random. You are WAY too hot on your preamp. In the second case you've clearly got a problem. It could be the mic, wind, cable, preamp, etc but something is screwing up.

This is all disheartening

Get u

[xfrancox]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Dynamic mics are low in level. It's the nature of the beast. For voiceover work, I have to crank my Vintech 1272 all the way up when using my Shure SM7. Cheap preamps will be more prone to noise. Toss a compressor plugin on the track you are recording, from the gitgo boost the output by 15dB or so and then turn down your preamp so there is no noise.

I didn't think of doing that, thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

I'm concerned by the fact that you mentioned "clipping". What is clipping? Clipping is caused by the preamp being turned up too loud regardless of noise. It sounds like your levels are way too hot.

If you are recording mega loud guitar amps and still need to boost this much something is wrong.

Well what I mean is my clip indicator lights come on. Either on the Mbox or in my DAW. I don't want to turn my pre up so much but from what I've been doing which is just testing my mics out with dialogue the levels are so low that they are completely covered up by any other track. That's why I think there's something actually wrong. I remember using my OM2 back with my first Mbox and never having to crank it so high. As far as guitars and other instruments, I haven't had the chance to record yet with my new set up but I'm sure the pre wouldn't need to be so high for that.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Pop filters don't do anything if no one is talking/singing into the mic.

I mentioned this because a friend of mine asked if I had one after listening to the audio file of my friend talking in to the mic. Mentioned it in case anyone else had the same question.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

3 o'clock on a condenser mic strikes me as a ton of gain. Maybe the MXL in question is low in output, but I doubt it. Hook a few cables together and move the mic into another room. Does it still make the same noise? Is the noise different? More than likely it's just picking up noises in the room like the fan in your computer.

This isn't a good sign if there was no sound in the room and no one was moving the mic around. It takes a loud noise, moving the mic, or a really cranked preamp to clip. Either that or something is malfunctioning.

3 o'clock on the Mbox2 is only a little past nominal. The noise I'm hearing isn't that kind of noise. You hear it in the clips I linked but when you see it in a DAW you can tell it's definitely much different than your average fan or A/C. I definitely think it's something malfunctioning.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

In the future, please use mp3 files. 24 bit wav files are a pain in the ass to deal with on my home computer.

In the first case, I can't tell if you are overloading the mic by not using a pop filter or if the noise is random. You are WAY too hot on your preamp. In the second case you've clearly got a problem. It could be the mic, wind, cable, preamp, etc but something is screwing up.

Sorry about, the clips are right from my Audio Folder and I didn't have any problems with it on my computer so I didn't think anything of it.

From some suggestions I've gotten here and there I think it might be due to a bad mic cable which would give me lower than usual levels with my dynamics and cause cutting out on my condenser. On my way to work today I bought a new 20' foot monster cable so when I get home I'll be testing it out to see if it solves my problems. I know the cable I bought was on the cheap side but I figured I'd be ok as long as I took good care of it. Maybe not?

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Get u

I don't get this?

[brandondrury]

I don't want to turn my pre up so much but from what I've been doing which is just testing my mics out with dialogue the levels are so low that they are completely covered up by any other track.

I guess the real issue here is how hot are the levels going into your software? If you are clipping that means your levels are VERY hot. I'm quite content with my hotter levels sitting at the -10dB mark for vocals. There is no reason to go any hotter.

If your other tracks are relatively too loud, turn them down and then boost the volume of your headphone mix or add a Brickwall limiter on the 2bus to make the mix louder in your recording software.

This is all disheartening

Get u

This was supposed to say "Get used to it!".

Brandon

[xfrancox]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely try that stuff out.

I tried out my new mic cable a couple nights ago and for a little while I thought I had solved my problem. Unfortunately after about 15 minutes of having the mxl plugged in and powered up it started making the same noises heard in the second clip I linked above. I will say that my dynamic seemed a tiiiny bit louder but nothing major. I also noticed an over cleaner signal with all mics but unfortunately my main issue was not solved. I was thinking it was either my mbox or my mic. Now I'm fairly certain it's my mic. I brought it to a friends house and tried it out on his rig. Again after 10-15 minutes it started making the noise. I talked to the support staff at mxl and without proof of purchase the best I can do is spend 85 dollars on a replacement. I think I might do that since getting fixed anywhere else will cost me a ton and this route will get me a brand new mic.

[Vulconizer]

If it is doing this only after 15 minutes or so of being plugged in, it appears that it's possible it could be a heat-related issue.

Is this a tube mic? I'm not familiar with the model you specified, but my cousin has an MXL condenser that has a tube. The tube is located in a separate box and takes a 7-pin cable.

It * may * be possible the tube is going bad and the problem shows up when it gets decently heated up. Might be why the person on CL sold it.

If your model isn't a tube mic, I'm a bit stumped. I'm not sure the phantom power would generate enough heat to otherwise cause problems, but I guess it's possible.

[xfrancox]

Nope, not a tube mic. I linked to the mics page above if you wanted a better look. I also opened it up today with my friend and nothing looks fried either.

[Vulconizer]

Originally Posted by xfrancox

Nope, not a tube mic. I linked to the mics page above if you wanted a better look. I also opened it up today with my friend and nothing looks fried either.

Hmmm... Was just a guess. At least you have that out of the way in the troubleshooting process. heh.

Just seems suspect to me that it only starts doing it after a certain amount of time. That indicates to me that it would be heat-related. It is entirely possible that there could be some other factor at work though. I'm not an electronics genius by any means. lol

[xfrancox]

Haha, thats true. Currently I'm trying to see if I can have someone fix the mic or if I can fix it, for cheaper than $85.

[Vulconizer]

If you have a buddy that's good with electronics, see if he can check out the circuits. See if you can get a schematic on the mic and have him go through it.

Not sure what else you can do.

Good luck though.