Help! First considerations for setting up to record??

[kgrif]

I'm a guitarist/keyboardist who just realized I want to have a simple but effective and decent quality setup that would allow me to make and keep a record of what I do. I also realized just how many considerations there are as well in what I thought would be a small endeavour (but from the prices of things I realize not... making [hopefully good] choices all the more important) It's the beginning of what I hope to eventually become a venture into my home studio... but for short term purposes and until I learn a little more I just want a good keyboard/workstation, a setup that would allow me to record from guitar to computer and software (that would allow me to edit and record vocals, lead guitar and rhythm, bass and keyboard... like same track... play it over and add a lead track to it type thing)
My computer isn't presently setup for anything like this and I was hoping someone could either tell me what devices/equipment/soundcards or anything else of the sort I need or that is recommended (especially to get the guitar recording goin) and/or be able to point me to a solid resource or starting point that would explain to me what I need for the guitar hookup and some kind of breakdown and explanation of studio keyboard capabilities and features so I can begin to discern what I really need for my purposes.

[brandondrury]

Okay, you have a lot of questions here. I'll try to address as many as I can.

but for short term purposes and until I learn a little more I just want a good keyboard/workstation,

I would forget the "good keyboard / workstation" part unless you want a great live keyboard as well. I say this because VST instruments have pretty much replaced synths. This is why most recording guys are using midi controllers that plug midi into their soundcard and just use the sounds on the computer. I'd say that this is the way that 95% of all midi tracks are done these days.

but for short term purposes and until I learn a little more I just want a good keyboard/workstation, a setup that would allow me to record from guitar to computer and software (that would allow me to edit and record vocals, lead guitar and rhythm, bass and keyboard... like same track... play it over and add a lead track to it type thing)

Okay, so you will want a midi sequencer to record your midi notes and then play them back through samples or VST instruments. Take a look at the getting started section in the forum and you will find free software. If you have the budget, I always recommend Cubase. I've spent enough money on recording to buy a crappy house and Cubase SX3 does more than I need. You would probably be happy with one of the cheaper Cubase versions.

You'll need a 2 channel soundcard with midi. Here is a list of 2 channel soundcards with Midi and built in preamps.

You didn't mention if you planned on micing up an amp or recording your guitars direct. If you are recording electric guitars direct, I'd recommend getting a soundcard with a Hi-Z input.

Here is a list of 2 channel soundcards with built in preamps, midi, and at least one hi-z input.

some kind of breakdown and explanation of studio keyboard capabilities

I use a Roland XP-10. It's about as crappy as you can get. I NEVER use the built in sounds. I'm just using it as a midi controller. It does everything I need. I'd probably prefer keys with some weight to them, but I'm not really a keyboard player anyway, so it's not that big of deal.

I'm not really sure what you are asking about features in a keyboard, so please get into more details if I haven't already answered your questions.

Brandon

[kgrif]

Awesome, thanks alot, I think that pretty much answered everything...

most recording guys are using midi controllers that plug midi into their soundcard and just use the sounds on the computer.

I think the reason I want a keyboard is that I like working with the full set of keys in front of me rather than having a few (As I think controllers do) and putting everything together on the computer.

If you are recording electric guitars direct, I'd recommend getting a soundcard with a Hi-Z input.

I was looking at the results and quite liked the Lexicon Omega Desktop Recording Studio.
I like the interface and it seems like I might be able to learn on it. If you would tell me if you think there's anything I should be concerned about that would be awesome... Also it comes with Cubase LE which I'm assuming is a lower version of the SX3 you were talking about it... thing is, I was looking around at some reviews and people said it was only compatible with the Cubase LE that it came with...

I've spent enough money on recording to buy a crappy house and Cubase SX3 does more than I need.

haha, I can see that being a more serious statement than you'd probably like it to be... I think I'm probably going to take your word and purchase and stick with Cubase for awhile, but can I take it for granted that if I got the lexicon it would probably work with other versions of Cubase...
ALSO, and I hope I'm not asking too many questions here, but are there any drawbacks to using a USB device like this one for recording?

I'm not really sure what you are asking about features in a keyboard, so please get into more details if I haven't already answered your questions.

I take the point that if I want a good keyboard it would have to be a good live one. The features I was really talking about were more those related to functionality; hooking up the keyboard to the soundcard I get... The question then I guess is pretty much what do ports do I need to make sure I get with it? It looks like all I need is MIDI compatibility and an output (for jacks... ahh the language of a layman) as well as a sufficient sound bank and whatever other nifty features are included with whatever model I go with...?

Also just to make sure, I took you to be saying that pretty much any keyboard could be used as a midi controller in which case are all the midi sounds I would need and whatnot included with software? (drums, etc.)...

And forchristssake does anyone know of a good book I could get that would introduce me to all this stuff!?

Thanks

[brandondrury]

I think the reason I want a keyboard is that I like working with the full set of keys in front of me rather than having a few (As I think controllers do) and putting everything together on the computer.

Midi controllers are just as big as any pianos I've seen.

Here's an 88 key controller.

I was looking at the results and quite liked the Lexicon Omega Desktop Recording Studio.
I like the interface and it seems like I might be able to learn on it. If you would tell me if you think there's anything I should be concerned about that would be awesome...

Nothing jumps out at me. I'm sure it's a fine soundcard. If the features meet your needs, it should be all you need for a long time.

I was looking around at some reviews and people said it was only compatible with the Cubase LE that it came with...

Hmm. I've never heard this. This is generally not the way that soundcards work. Soundcards are usually compatible with just about any piece of software. Pro Tools may be an exception (I'm not sure about that one).

It's possible, but my gut says this is hogwash. You need to ask around to see if this is actually the case. If it is, please let me know.

Yes, I'm big on Cubase. This version is VERY GOOD, actually. It's missing a few things that I would want and that you would probably never notice. If you ever outgrow this version, moving up to SX3, is no big deal.

ALSO, and I hope I'm not asking too many questions here,

That's what this forum is for. If you questions get too far off topic, you should start new threads, but other that that ask away.

but are there any drawbacks to using a USB device like this one for recording?

There are some USB devices that have latency issues. I would ask around to see what kind of latency times people are getting with this Lexicon card. If it has a direct monitoring feature, that won't be an issue anyway. I'd ask around about this specific unit. Try a few Google searches or whatever.

The features I was really talking about were more those related to functionality; hooking up the keyboard to the soundcard I get... The question then I guess is pretty much what do ports do I need to make sure I get with it? It looks like all I need is MIDI compatibility and an output (for jacks... ahh the language of a layman) as well as a sufficient sound bank and whatever other nifty features are included with whatever model I go with...?

Well, pretty much any keyboard with midi out has enough functionality for me. A pro keyboard guy may want some fancy mod wheel stuff or whatever, but I wouldn't know what to do with that anyway. You'll need to figure out what you really need. I'm in the middle of making two records that I have plans of seriously making money with (for the first time) and I'm using a keyboard that I get off Ebay for $40. Your needs may be different.

The only big deal is making sure you can get midi out of the keyboard and into the computer. Some controllers are USB and bypass your soundcard altogether. Some controllers use a standard midi jack. You'll want to double check that your soundcard has one before buying.

Also just to make sure, I took you to be saying that pretty much any keyboard could be used as a midi controller in which case are all the midi sounds I would need and whatnot included with software? (drums, etc.)...

This is totally up to you and your needs. Afrian tribes are happy hitting wooden sticks on stretched leather or whatever. Then again, some guys own 50 guitars. It just depends on your needs and tastes. Cubase SX3 comes with A LOT of fun toys to get your started. It does not have everything, however.

I bought Cubase SX3, DHF Superior by Toontrack, and Native Instruments Komplete (for $600 when it was on sale) and I have A LOT of sounds to play with. I'd love to have more, but I wouldn't say I NEED anything else.

And forchristssake does anyone know of a good book I could get that would introduce me to all this stuff!?

Actually, I can't think of one book for getting started with home recording. That was one of the reasons I started this stupid site over a year ago. I wasn't happy with the info that was out there.

I do plan on getting into the "everything you need to know about recording" book world, but I've got way too much on my plate for that so far.

You've got 2 sides to learn. You have to learn how to hook all this crap up and get passed the learning curve for all of it. Then (and only then) you can get into making music and actually learning audio engineering.

There are quite a bit of articles on this site that will help.

Actually, I've got a few old articles when the site was brand new that may be of help. Send me a private message and I'll send you a link.

Brandon






There are quite a few 88 key midi controllers out there. 61 key midi controllers are probably the most common.

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by kgrif

I was looking at the results and quite liked the Lexicon Omega Desktop Recording Studio.

I like the interface and it seems like I might be able to learn on it. If you would tell me if you think there's anything I should be concerned about that would be awesome... Also it comes with Cubase LE which I'm assuming is a lower version of the SX3 you were talking about it... thing is, I was looking around at some reviews and people said it was only compatible with the Cubase LE that it came with...

I believe what people are referring to is Lexicon's DSP that comes with the Omega. I seem to recall reading that they include a kind of light version of some really high end Lexicon DSP, but that you can only use it with Cubase LE. Kind of pointless since LE is pretty disabled. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure LE will be fine to get you started, but it won't be long before you realize that it has serious limitations and will be looking for something with a better feature set (like Cubase 4 Studio, or if you can still get it, Cubase SL).

I take the point that if I want a good keyboard it would have to be a good live one. The features I was really talking about were more those related to functionality; hooking up the keyboard to the soundcard I get... The question then I guess is pretty much what do ports do I need to make sure I get with it? It looks like all I need is MIDI compatibility and an output (for jacks... ahh the language of a layman) as well as a sufficient sound bank and whatever other nifty features are included with whatever model I go with...?

Synth's and other keyboards with built in sounds are actually more complicated to get going than master keyboards and VSTi's. Okay, there isn't a whole lot in it - once you get your synth working with Cubase you'll be on a roll, but workflow is easier when everything is in the box (the box being your computer). You open a sequence you've been working on, and your instruments load up with all the right settings. If you want that with your external synth, you have to dump SYSEX to restore the keyboard next time you load up the sequence. I've found life to be much simpler working completely in the computer.

Mind you, setting up this way is no cheaper - you need a really powerful computer, and the sample libraries are very expensive. They are however in general of much higher quality than you get in a synth.

[brandondrury]

and the sample libraries are very expensive.

I wouldn't say "very expensive".

I've dumped about $1,000 into my samples and I've got a little bit of everything. To get sounds like this in a keyboard would cost.... well, you can't get sounds like this in a keyboard.

I would take my $1,000 of samples over a Kurtweil or whatever any day of the week.

However, as Richiebee is eluding to, the sky is the limit as far as samples are concerned. I know Dach spent $20k on samples last year. OUCH! So they can get very expensive. It just depends on what your needs and wants are.

I have to admit that I was pretty happy with most of the sounds built into Cubase until I bought stuff that was quite a bit better (this is totally subjective of course).

Brandon