Getting down to the basics.

[BORNintoMUSIC]

Ok. So I've posted a couple of songs up in the review section and they are barely even considered novice.

So I want to get your guys' opinion on how to start recording for a live band practice.

I have an Alesis Multimix firewire 16 mixer that interfaces with Cubase SX3. We have 3 mics on the drums, a beta 87A for our vocalist, and then everyone else (the bass, and 2 guitarists) interface with the mixer directly.

I get the general idea that most people don't agree with direct interfacing directly, but that's what we have to work with. So with that being said...

I'm looking to get a somewhat decent recording of our live performances. The problem, it seems, is that all of the direct interfaced instruments seem to "top out" meaning volume meter for the instruments directly interfaced, is always maxed out when the instrument plays. (I hope that makes sense) That leads me to the instruments always clipping out, even at the lowest of volumes. So the next logical conclusion is to lower the volume faders on the mixer so that the instruments have more room. The problem with that though is that the volume is so low, that when I export the mix, people have to blast their speakers to the max to hear anything.

So I guess what I'm trying to get to is, how do you guys go about setting up for live recordings? What are you mixer settings? How do you get "room" in your volume?

I've been doing this for about a year now (and while I've learned quite a bit) it still feels like I'm at square one. I've been reading this forum and wikipedia for help but it's the hands on experience that I really learn from. I do this every day... and I'm not expecting immediate results, but I would like to feel like I'm making progress.

Thanks for any help guys!

Brandon

[brandondrury]

The problem with that though is that the volume is so low, that when I export the mix, people have to blast their speakers to the max to hear anything.

This implies that you aren't doing any mixing. You have total control over levels once they get into your recording software.

When I begin mixing, I setup the drums so they are peaking on the 2bus at about -10dB. If I was to export the mix like this, this drums would sound VERY quiet. I do the mix. As I get close to being finished, I put a Waves L2 or some other brickwall limiter on the 2 bus in order to bring up the level dramatically. When I do this, I turn my studio monitors volume knob down from 1 o'clock down to about 9 o'clock. This is when I get my volume up to where it should be.

Of course, it gets more complex when you start factoring in compression and the actual limiting of the transients.

I'm not expecting immediate results, but I would like to feel like I'm making progress.

Good luck on that one. I find that noticeable improvement is something I see here and see there, but it's not always blatantly obvious. In fact, the music and musicians seem to have more control than my improvements do.



Brandon

[BORNintoMUSIC]

When I begin mixing, I setup the drums so they are peaking on the 2bus at about -10dB. If I was to export the mix like this, this drums would sound VERY quiet. I do the mix. As I get close to being finished, I put a Waves L2 or some other brickwall limiter on the 2 bus in order to bring up the level dramatically. When I do this, I turn my studio monitors volume knob down from 1 o'clock down to about 9 o'clock. This is when I get my volume up to where it should be.

I have a clear picture in my head on what you're telling me here. Thanks!

Basically when I was "mixing" before, I would use compression and makeup gain to increase the volume on the recorded tracks. I assume this is not an efficient means of increasing the volume level?

As far as clipping is concerned. Is it normal to listen to a single track in it's entirety and have no problems at all with clipping, and then you do this with every single track you have, but then when you put them all together the mix has clipping problem?

Thanks for all your help Brandon!

[brandondrury]

Basically when I was "mixing" before, I would use compression and makeup gain to increase the volume on the recorded tracks. I assume this is not an efficient means of increasing the volume level?

It's certainly a part of it. I definitely use makeup gain just about anytime I need compression. However, I still do heavy tweaking with the faders.

Is it normal to listen to a single track in it's entirety and have no problems at all with clipping, and then you do this with every single track you have, but then when you put them all together the mix has clipping problem?

Of course. Try this:

Solo your overhead(s) and set the level so that they peak at -10dB or so. Then also solo the snare drum close mic. Look at your meters. You'll be hitting higher than -10dB for sure. The tracks add together.

Duplicate your snare drum track and you should see a 3dB increase.

It's totally possible to overload your 2bus. This is why I mix with the drums down -10dB. I never run out of room this way. By the time I get all the levels of the instruments about right, the drums will peak much higher than -10dB.

Brandon

[BORNintoMUSIC]

It's totally possible to overload your 2bus. This is why I mix with the drums down -10dB. I never run out of room this way. By the time I get all the levels of the instruments about right, the drums will peak much higher than -10dB.

Ok I think I see what you're saying here. What you do is mix the drums, get them to a point where they aren't peaking past -10db, then mix them down, import the track into the project again, and then mix accordingly?

Thanks again Brandon!!!

[brandondrury]

What you do is mix the drums, get them to a point where they aren't peaking past -10db, then mix them down, import the track into the project again, and then mix accordingly?

No. Not at all. What would be the point of rendering down the drums? I would lose all control over the mix. What if I wanted to change something? I mean that when I mix, I get the drums to peak at -10dB. I usually have to physically pull down the volume of most faders to do this. The reason I do this is to ensure that I don't overload the 2bus when guitars, keyboards, vocals, and bass come into the picture. This is why I don't have problems with overloading the 2bus.