First recording rig - mixer, mic/s, headphones?

[axertes]

I've been a lurker on this website for a while now, toying with the idea of getting myself a beginner-level home studio. Now that the tax office gave me a $2000 refund and I have a long summer holiday coming up, I think now is the time. I don't want to spend more than $1000. I'd prefer to spend more like $6-700

I'm a guitarist, not currently in a band, and live in Australia. I want to mic my instruments, none of this DI stuff. I'm not interested in MIDI. I have a decent computer but no soundcard. I have ZERO experience micing cabs and such, but have made really crappy recordings with a computer mic into a crap soundcard into Cool Edit Pro.

Basically I want to get a setup to a standard where I could record a demo for my or a friend's band of good enough quality that I wouldn't be embarrassed putting it on myspace or something. So I want to be able to record more than just guitar. While I don't have a band, I'll be learning and having fun 'playing with myself' on my guitar, probably adding crappy sampled drums and stuff.


Guitar rig/style/sound

Not that relevant, but it might affect mic choices...

I run an LPish guitar through a Traynor YCV80. That's an 80w 2x12 tube combo with a Fender Twinish kinda clean sound, but the gain is enough for Marshallesque heavy sounds too. It's a bit on the shrill side being 1/2 open back, so I have a closed B52 2x12 cab to complement it (don't laugh, the B52 complemented my amp better than any Celestion loaded cabs I tried). I figure heavy sounds are probably the hardest to make sound good, so I'll describe that.

My 'main heavy' sound is guitar > proco rat (gain on 1/4, filter 3/4, volume max) > eq (mild high & high mid boost) > preamp with gain on 8 > eq (mid scoop) > power amp. The style that would best describe what I often play is like Isis or Pelican, if you're familiar with them. Drop B, heavy, but less scooped than Metallica or something. Perhaps more like Tool, but a bit heavier.

My clean sound is that, minus the first EQ, with a digi delay and reverb; and tapped humbuckers for the most tele-like sound I can get. The Rat at that level gives me nice dirt when I dig in. The sound I'm aiming for there is like Mogwai's clean stuff (Tele > Memory Man > Fender Twin and Bassman).


Soundcard/mixer?

I used the soundcard wizard thing on this site. What really appealed to me as best bang for my buck was the Alesis multimix series. Heaps of preamps and inputs for the money. I've got my eye on the Multimix 12 Firewire for cheap on ebay. They're almost twice as expensive to buy from a shop here in Aus.

Of course, all I need to record my own guitar is an audio interface with one or two preamps, but I thought a few extra inputs leaves options open for the future, i.e. making a demo-quality recording for a whole band.

I want firewire because:
- USB has too much latency
- I might get a good laptop one day for portable recording, so I don't want PCI

And it comes with Cubase so that solves software problems.


Mics

Brandon Drury here pretty well says "if you're a beginner, get a Shure SM57". Do you think an SM57 would mic the setup I'm describing well? Will it handle drop B bedroom riffs with my volume on 10?

The other thing is, I wanted to get a dynamic and a condenser for flexibility in what I can record. I also like the idea of playing with micing my cab with 2 different mics, playing with phase and stuff, and killing fizz with a condenser. I fear I may get too much fizz with an SM57: my rig is susceptible to fizz.

In the starting your own home recording guide on here Brandon makes some mic suggestions:

Audio-Technica AT2020
MXL 990 / 993 Package
MXL 2003/603S Package
MXL V63M Condenser Studio Mic with Mogami Mic Cable
Audio-Technica AT2020 & AT2021 Microphone Pack

The MXL packs caught my eye as good value. What do people think of these? With the 2003/603s combination for example, would BOTH of these mics be ok for micing a loud, heavy, distorted guitar cab?

Mics are where I really feel the most bewildered, so I'm very open to advice and suggestions here.


Headphones
I haven't really looked into headphones yet. I don't want to invest in studio monitors yet, so I'll stick with headphones for the time being.

Noise-cancellation would be good for getting my mix, because even if I put my guitar cab on the other side of my house, the walls are thin and I'll still be able to hear it.

Any suggestions for headphones? I have no idea here, and didn't see any articles on it.

..........................

Long post I know, so thanks in advance to anyone who actually reads it and offers advice.

Cheers,

Geoff

[brandondrury]

have a closed B52 2x12 cab to complement it (don't laugh

I'd kick off any piece of crap that laughs at someone else's gear. (If you were trying to record with a tin can and a piece of yarn, I woud allow laughing). Use your ears. Don't EVER apologizing for using a piece of gear that you like. EVER!

I figure heavy sounds are probably the hardest to make sound good, so I'll describe that.

Not true. Electric guitars are relatively simple. Put up a mic in a non-harsh, non-muddy spot. The rest is the amp. If the tone sucks, it's the tone coming out of the amp.

Of course, all I need to record my own guitar is an audio interface with one or two preamps, but I thought a few extra inputs leaves options open for the future, i.e. making a demo-quality recording for a whole band.

Keep in mind that if you plan on recording 8 channels simultaneously, you'll need 8 mics, 8 mic stands, and 8 XLR cables. I only say this because you are on a tight budget.

Brandon Drury here pretty well says "if you're a beginner, get a Shure SM57". Do you think an SM57 would mic the setup I'm describing well? Will it handle drop B bedroom riffs with my volume on 10?

Brandon Drury is the greatest human to ever live. He's my favorite at least. Of course, I'm biased.

I can't think of a better mic for you application than the Shure SM57.

I also like the idea of playing with micing my cab with 2 different mics, playing with phase and stuff, and killing fizz with a condenser. I fear I may get too much fizz with an SM57: my rig is susceptible to fizz.

You are getting sucked into the "tricks" black hole. I haven't used 2 mics on a guitar cabinet in probably 18 months. I don't need it. If you want to get good guitar tones, one mic should sound AWESOME. If it doesn't, you did something wrong. From there, you can add 2-10 mics as you feel like it.

If a recorded tone has too much fizz, I first make sure the mic isn't dead center on the speaker. If it is not dead center, the problem is the amp.

Why do you think that a condenser will "kill the fizz"? Most condensers have a boosted top end.

With any mic, you have infinite control. Putting the mic on the center of the speaker will always be the brightest spot. Putting the mic on the outer edge of the speaker will always sound dark and boomy. Pull the mic back 10 foot will always sound distant.

Any suggestions for headphones?

I've never had a great set of headphones. I have some $25 Presonus headphones that sound boomy and feel weird on my head. I have some $60 Audio Technicas where are much nicer.

Brandon

[axertes]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Keep in mind that if you plan on recording 8 channels simultaneously, you'll need 8 mics, 8 mic stands, and 8 XLR cables. I only say this because you are on a tight budget.

Yes, but upgradability is the idea here. If I get a 2 input interface and I want to do that stuff later then I kinda have to start again. But you're right, and if I start to go over budget this will be the first downgrade.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

You are getting sucked into the "tricks" black hole. I haven't used 2 mics on a guitar cabinet in probably 18 months. I don't need it. If you want to get good guitar tones, one mic should sound AWESOME. If it doesn't, you did something wrong. From there, you can add 2-10 mics as you feel like it.

Yes, but again, I'm looking at recording more than just a guitar cab later. The 'tricks' were just something I might want to play with. You're right though: learn to crawl... I still don't quite understand the application of different types of mics.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Why do you think that a condenser will "kill the fizz"? Most condensers have a boosted top end.

Because I have no f@*#ing idea what I'm talking about

Thanks for the advice.

[brandondrury]

Because I have no f@*#ing idea what I'm talking about

Defining the problem is the first step to solving it!

If you are in this for the long haul, buy your gear accordingly. Only you can decide how much gear you need.

Brandon