DI amp recording - fx send?

[ted]

So a day into my home recording project the noise complaints came rolling in. Bummer. A buddy of mine avoids this problem by recording direct in using the line out on his marshall AVT150.
I use a marshall DSL50 that doesn't have a line out, but I did find an fx send. Having seen those on mixers, my first thought was that maybe this output is at line level and could go direct in to my soundcard?
If so, would it be just clear guitar tone or would it have any preamp effects?
My second thought was that it's generally a bad idea to use nice guitar gear for uninformed experimentation, so I haven't tried it yet. Anyone know if this works or if it's safe?

[brandondrury]

Anyone know if this works or if it's safe?

I'm sure I'd done this back when I didn't have a real recording rig. I can attest to it being safe. You have nothing to worry about that.

Now, there is one possible issue. I've debated this with some people, but I've always been taught to NEVER unplug a tube amp from its cabinet when it's on. So, I'm going to stick with that logic. I'm not sure how the newer Marshalls are doing their effects loop. It's possible that all the signal is going there and if you go line out, then you will completely mute your amp.

It's also possible that the amp will still make noise. Give it hell and find out.

The signal should be line level or somewhere in that ball park. You may need to boost it a little or you may need to use a pad.

If so, would it be just clear guitar tone or would it have any preamp effects?

The effects loop comes in between the preamp stage and the power amp stage. So any gain added by the preamp tubes (your gain knob)is going to be there as well as your tone controls. Any of the effects of speakers and power tubes are gone. This is probably going to result in tones you DO NOT like. I HATE direct guitar recording. I'm guessing your buddy's amp has some sort of "emulated" out that is probably toneless, but has the fizz knocked off the top to make it usable for someone who is VERY forgiving with their recorded guitar tone.

[Charlie_M]

It's a real bummer that neighbrs and wives and stuff simply don't get the fact that we guitarists have just got to have a certain amount of output tube distortion o fully express our true genius ! I have the same issue.

So far I've been OK wih just recording at a fairly low volume. I have a line out on my amp but have found that I'm happier with the recorded tone through a good mic at low volume (which means ya you have to give up the OT distortion which is so key to certain kinds of sounds). But this is how I do it now and I'm happy with the results. Have you tried that?

I've compared the line out on my amp (a peavey JSX) against the direct out from my POD and strangely I prefer the POD for going direct. It has now become cliche for a true tube amp connissuer to look down on the pod and all that it represents (modeling). And certainly it is true that it's less ideal than putting a mic on your amp. But I find it a little bit better than going direct from my amp. You can pick up a used pod on craigslist for <$100.

Another option to consider is an attenuator. I've not tried that but I hear they are effective at giving you full tube tone (including whatever OT distortion your amp provides) at a low volume. These are normally >$200 new but I've seen used ones around $130. In fact I feel that I should have nabbed the used one I saw at $130.

Anyway... I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just suggesting some possible alternatives to look into that might be a solution. I kinda have the same situation wrt volume in the house....

[brandondrury]

It has now become cliche for a true tube amp connissuer to look down on the pod and all that it represents (modeling).

I think calling it a "cliche" makes it sound more liek a trend or unsubstantiated claim. If takes about 2 seconds of listening to realize that a POD is not the sound on my favorite records.

If comparing the POD to other direct devices the pod SHOULD win. That's what it was designed for.

I guess you are making the point that if you have to go direct, maybe a POD is worth looking into. Personally, I hate to hear that anyone has to go through this.

It's a real bummer that neighbrs and wives and stuff simply don't get the fact that we guitarists have just got to have a certain amount of output tube distortion o fully express our true genius ! I have the same issue.

Yeah, this is the real problem. We sabotage are own recording, fun, etc to cater to those who oppress us.

[ted]

Hey thanks guys!

I think I'll give the fx loop (with cab still plugged in) a shot saturday afternoon, if there's any time for the neighbors to be lenient about noise I think that's it.
I'll also try quiet recording - the sound will suffer but then again seems like direct input will probably have a worse effect.
On PODs, I'm not crazy about em but I'd rather get a POD than an eviction notice.
I think the real solution is to get new (deaf) neighbors...

[Charlie_M]

I hear that man. I may move here pretty soon - I'm thinking the next house needs to have a shed out in the backyard that I can make into a little recording area that is at least somewhat soundproof. Probably that plus an attenuator and I'd be in tone city.

Good luck with your recording.

[brandondrury]

I'll also try quiet recording - the sound will suffer but then again seems like direct input will probably have a worse effect.

While I generally record tube amps on 10 these days, I could still get by recording on 2. Hotplates and such work well too.

Have you looked at my guitar fort?

Brandon

[ted]

Guitar fort looks amazing!
Unfortunately, my apartment has 1 all purpose living room for eating, tv, studying, working, entertaining, and guitaring...
My guitar rig looks quite nice when I walk through the front door, but I think I would be risking my health by building it a fort at the expense of my girlfriend's decorative aesthetics,
But it's on my to-do list though for when I move into a house, and it's going to be sweeet...

[brandondrury]

I think I would be risking my health by building it a fort at the expense of my girlfriend's decorative aesthetics,

Good point. The risk of death is not worth the guitar fort.

With that said, just putting an amp on top of a cushion and using a blanket or two can help quite a bit in knocking your volume down even if you don't have the option of using 250+ pounds of insulation.

Brandon

[ted]

I think I'll give that a try, would I put the mic underneath the blanket too like the fort?
Or leave it outside with the preamp adjusted?
Thanks!

[Charlie_M]

Very cool. That fort is brilliant !

[brandondrury]

I think I'll give that a try, would I put the mic underneath the blanket too like the fort?
Or leave it outside with the preamp adjusted?
Thanks!

Try it both ways and tell me which one you like.

Very cool. That fort is brilliant !

Well... the Bernoulli Effect is brilliant. The guitar fort is more in line with caveman jive, but it does work, lets me crank my guitars as loud as I want, keeps the girlfriend happy, and costs about the price of a THD Hotplate. (Of course, I had a ton of rockwool left from building bass traps and such.

Brandon