Cant record above -3db

[AngryMonkey]

Hi,
Im quite confused, I think im really struggling with gain structure for some reason.

I have a Shure SM58 mic -> Presonus FP10 -> Cubase SX3

No matter what I set the gain to on my presonus the max level in cubase is -3db (in fact if I hit -3db in cubase it distorts and the FP10s clip light comes on).

Is this to be expected? I was trying to record my vocals at the same volume as a standard CD (which when I import a normal mp3 into cubase shows as -0db).

Maybe I need to read up on gain structure or something, any one know any good articles?

Cheers!
AM.

[P.P.T.]

You shouldn't be recording that hot.
Peaking at -6 is OK.
An RMS level at around -18 is OK.

[MetalDave]

If you look really close through all of the tools in the software there is probably something giving you the option of peak levels and it must be adjusted to -3db right now. I think -7db is good for a level if you are going to be tracking other instruments later. Although I have my peak level at 0db, it is a good reference to me.

[kbenton]

With low output microphones like the SM58, the dynamic range of the mic will hit it’s ceiling and clip before the pre’s on the FP10. So your mic will be clipping before your interface.

You probably want to try a higher output condenser mic.

Hope this helps.

Katelyn Benton
Kbenton@presonus.com
PreSonus Audio Electronics

[whiterabbit_the]

I disagree with KBenton, I've actually used an SM58 SEVERAL times when tracking vocals and never once has it clipped BEFORE the interface. Yes I have overloaded the mic with screaming takes, but is not really pushing the mic to a level of clipping....especially since the pre's are literally on zero in that instance. I've used it for whisper tracks which required boosting the mic pre's to get the level I was looking for, and again, that's with a lower output mic.

A higher output mic to me just means that I just have to set my mic pre's to a lower level...nothing more.

The only way that I could see it clipping before the FP10 is if you have your mic pre's boosted to like 45 and up db's.

Like MetalDave, I track to 0 db's as a visual reference as well, but I trust my ears and my monitors more :P Everyone has their opinion here, but it's all preference. When I first track, I don't watch my peak levels on the mixer (in Nuendo 3), I actually watch the visual track I am recording and make sure it's not freaking gi-normous (or too hot) and adjust to taste.

As for your issue, it is a setting that I can not remember how to change at the moment. I'll do some research and find out. The majority of the time when I am tracking in Nuendo, it says that I am peaking...however, once I export, it's another story. WaveLab shows 0 db's, same with reloading the mp3 (or wav format, in my prefernce)...0 db's.

Then again, maybe I am misunderstanding the problem. When you record, you do not want to record AT 0 db's, I agree, -7 db's is a good starting point...adjusting individual track levels should amount to sitting right under the 0 db, as your max level is 6 db's

--Aaron

[brandondrury]

With low output microphones like the SM58, the dynamic range of the mic will hit it’s ceiling and clip before the pre’s on the FP10. So your mic will be clipping before your interface.

You probably want to try a higher output condenser mic.

You have to cram an OUTSTANDING amount of signal into a 58 before it clips. Without going to the Shure website, I have no doubts that you can record a 767 jet airliner taking off with a SM58 without it clipping.

So I don't think switching mics is the right solution.

The problem here is you are recording way too hot. There is absolutely no reason to ever want to hit zero when tracking. When I mix I set my drums to peak at -10dB. I almost always end up pulling my faders down quite a bit even though I don't track that hot. I then make up for it with a brickwall limiter on the 2bus.

By pushing the pres that hard you are going to overload something somewhere (preamp, converter, etc) and you'll probably add substantial amount of noise. Some high end preamps like to be cranked up, but I've never encountered stock pres in an audio interface that performed well like this.

Everyone has their opinion here, but it's all preference. When I first track, I don't watch my peak levels on the mixer (in Nuendo 3), I actually watch the visual track I am recording and make sure it's not freaking gi-normous (or too hot) and adjust to taste.

Everyone does have their opinion, but there isn't a person alive who will be listening to your music who cares what the waveform looks like. We can claim this is subjective, but I don't think there is a pro alive who will tell you to judge clipping with your eyes.

A higher output mic to me just means that I just have to set my mic pre's to a lower level

This is correct.

I was trying to record my vocals at the same volume as a standard CD

You don't necessarily do it with preamp gain. You need a compressor. Start a new thread in audio engineering if you need help.

Brandon

[whiterabbit_the]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Everyone does have their opinion, but there isn't a person alive who will be listening to your music who cares what the waveform looks like. We can claim this is subjective, but I don't think there is a pro alive who will tell you to judge clipping with your eyes.

Definitely agree...but to clarify what I saying, I said I use it just as a quick visual reference, but I trust my ears more.

--Aaron