Can't get rid of this noises!!

[Dubagenic]

Hi everybody. This is my first post!!
I'm experiencing some problems with my recordings and I hope to hear some fresh ideas from you. Here's the deal.....

My current setup in order:
Mic/Inst
Preamp
M-Audio Fast Track Pro and Novation MIDI keyboard (used separately)
Compaq Evo notebook - Pentium4 1.70GHz, 1GB RAM, USB 2.0 ports
Microsoft XP Professional (optimized for audio production)
[software: Ableton Live 4 and Propellerhead Reason 3.0]
Headphones

I can't get rid of this noises and pops when recording or just enabling a track to record while I'm using the ASIO drivers (installed and updated on the M-Audio website).

At first I thought the problem might have something to do with the latency (I started with 128 samples, then 256, 1024 and then 2048) but, no matter what settings I tweaked, those static-like pops never disappeared and the recorded sound never improved.

When I'm using the MME/DirectX drivers with the M-Audio interface inputs and outputs on, the noise still subsist but If I turn off the interface outputs and use the computers soundcard output I resolve this noises. Either way the latency is hugely increased and so the result is not satisfactory.

If I use the MIDI keyboard the problem is exactly the same. With the ASIO drivers I hear this annoying pops in the decay and sustain of almost every note I play. It resolves if I change to the MME/DirectX drivers but, then again, the latency increases.

What do you think the problem might be?
Some incompatibility between my notebook and the ASIO drivers in the output (even though I disable the computer soundcard)? Isn't my notebooks processor fast enough for recording audio purposes?
I tried the Fast Track Pro in a new Sony Vaio laptop and it worked just fine so, I think the unit it's defect-free.

Best regards

[DT Chris]

Use ASIO drivers. M-Audio installs it's own ASIO drivers you should use first.

Next, check the speed of your hard-disk. If you are using the same HD for recording a track, and playing back multiple tracks and other samples from the same HD, it will cause latency. Many laptop users use an external drive to help out with this.

Also, USB 2.0 is a master-slave, host-dependent technology, meaning it relies on your computer's CPU to facilitate and manage data transfers. Even though USB claims we can hook up to 127 devices through USB, we're still dependent on our CPU to deal with all of it. So the more devices in use at the same time will increase CPU usage and introduce latency. Firewire does not require the CPU to do the same thing. With USB, I'm more concerned with how much power it can run through it effectively...

RAM. Again the RAM. If you're not running the samples from the disk, but instead holding them in memory, it will eat up RAM. Your OS, your software, your background programs, and your current project all use up RAM. This will also contribute to latency issues. More RAM will always help. In fact, RAM is usually the singlemost thing anyone can do to increase computer performance.

Power. Most of my problems seem to happen when I have multiple USB running at once. I also seem to notice my mics don't pic up as well when I'm running them both (on long cables) and I'm wondering if there is not enough voltage to run everything through my Fast Track (USB) which has to supply this power. In the past when I've had hard-drive problems, video card problems, etc, it was due to a crappy or under-powered power supply. Try using the AC power for your keyboard and see if it helps at all - in addition to the other suggestions.

In a nutshell, latency can come from anywhere in your system, and is usually and additive of several things at once...

Power Supply
RAM
CPU Load
Hard Drive reads/writes
Lack of proper drivers

There is no single answer that will correct your problem. Each part of the DAW has to be looked at, to find the weakness. It will probably be a combo of all I've posted.

[brandondrury]

Isn't my notebooks processor fast enough for recording audio purposes?

1) It depends on the "audio purpose". I'm not sure how hard you are pushing your recording rig.

2) It depends on what else is going on. My brother had a brand new Gateway laptop. It was running incredibly slow! We formatted the thing to get all the factory dead weight out of there. The system feels 20 times faster. If you have this sort of situation, you may not be using 1/10th of your CPU power.

3)Did you notice a difference in CPU usage with different latency settings?

I tried the Fast Track Pro in a new Sony Vaio laptop and it worked just fine so, I think the unit it's defect-free.

This suggests the issue is with your laptop. My gut says that a format is the answer, even though you may not want to hear that.

[Dubagenic]

Thanks plenty for your attention and prompt reply!!

DT Chris:

"HD"
I use the same HD for recording and playing back the tracks but, even without any other tracks or samples in a new project, the noises occur immediately after I start to play.

"RAM"
I recently upgraded my laptop from 256 MB to 1GB RAM and optimized my OS in accord to this link - http://www.musicxp.net/tuning_tips.php - in hope of resolving the problem. I also do not use any background programs when recording. Albeit that the pops are always there.

"Power"
I thought about that too and tried to record something with only the Fast Track Pro interface connected to the USB port. I also used different instrument cable lengths (5ft to 9.8ft) but in the end the result was the same.


brandondrury:

1) I have tried to eliminate all that wasn't strictly necessary in my experiments. Even with only a guitar connected directly to the M-Audio interface, without any other tracks, plug-ins or background software running, the problem still remains.

2) I've had considered that already and formatted my notebook 3 weeks ago. Even with only the basic software onboard I haven't heard any improvements.

3) No significant difference in CPU usage. It's always lightly used, no matter the latency settings.


Much appreciated for all your comments and suggestions. Keep'em coming!!

[DT Chris]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

This suggests the issue is with your laptop. My gut says that a format is the answer, even though you may not want to hear that.

I would agree. It's funny how people spend hundreds of dollars getting the so-called computer 'specialists' to find out why their computer is not working properly, when all they do in the end is take your model into the shop and re-format it (yeah, that's ALL they do).

If a format happens, and the problem still remains, then other factors are there that must be scrutinized... step by step.

Dubagenic, I think you missed my point. The point is that problems with your computer and its operation will usually be caused by several weaknesses at once, so when trouble shooting your computer, you have to select each part of the chain and test it. You've done that somewhat. But you must get to the bottom of this, to find out which piece, or combo of pieces may be causing a weakness.

Compaq Evo Notebook Specs
RAM
You've maxed out your RAM on this model, so there is nothing you can do about that

Hard Drive
Look up your model # on this page to see which HD you actually have
The number of "rpm"s (or revolutions per minute) dictate how fast your hard drive can spin. Higher rpm means faster read and write times, which mean faster performance in moving files and general system performance.
60-GB 5400 rpm SMART Hard Drive
40-GB 5400 rpm SMART Hard Drive
40-GB 4200 rpm SMART Hard Drive
30-GB 4200 rpm SMART Hard Drive
20-GB 4200 rpm SMART Hard Drive
These are slow, and the 4200 RPM would be way too slow Check your computer and see what speed HD you actually have. 7200 RPM drives should be the least you want to work with, for musical and video production, especially if you're reading/writing to the same disk. Also, I don't want you to just throw the idea of using a second or 'scratch' drive for your projects. This will greatly improve your latency, as it will take the stress off your system.

Have you reserved HD space in the software? If you don't, the software will assign parts of your files to different 'sectors' of your hard-drive causing fragmentation, so when it goes to collect the pieces on playback, while trying to record, this can cause latency problems. Which brings up another point. If this is your DAW computer, defrag after every major session.

Why is the Sony performing and your laptop isn't?
Ok, so if all else fails, what you have to find out is why the Sony Vaio is doing fine vs your laptop. What specs do the Sony Vaio have that yours doesnt?
Please provide the model number of the Sony you tried that worked fine for you.

[Dubagenic]

Ok, let's get to the bottom of this... piece by piece!!

This is my laptop:
Compaq Evo Notebook N800v
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/q.../11077_na.html

This is my HD:
Toshiba 40-GB 5400 RPM
http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Pat...4019GAXSupport


Do you think that the Hard-Drive, running at 5400RPM, is causing this noises?
But even when I augment the latency (say to 4096 samples - very high), the problem doesn't resolve, those
pops are still there.

I haven't yet reserved specific HD space... but I will try it.

What's strange is that the noises occur also as soon as I assign a recording track. At this point, the HD is not
collecting the pieces on playback because I haven't recorded yet!! (I think, but I'm not certain of the process
in this case).

Would it be possible the M-Audio ASIO drivers are causing some kind of conflict with some part(s) of my computer,
manifested in these strange sounds on the output??

If I try to use some other brand or a different model audio interface and ASIO drivers do you think the problem
still subsists? (I don't know if they all function in the same manner or if they use the same ASIO drivers).

The Sony Vaio Laptop in wich I tested the audio interface has the reference "Model PCG-7G1M".

[DT Chris]

Software
Check your drivers. Is it the correct drivers for the M-Audio Fast Track Pro? Have you visited the site to check for the latest update?

Have you set up the device correctly within the software?
Have you checked there is no device conflicts by Start->(RightClick)MyComputer->Properties->Hardware->DeviceManager->Sound,Video& Game Controllers?
Have you disable all software that may be doing background checks, downloads, virus-searches, etc in the background?
Have you cleaned your hard-drive of extraneous temp files and run virus check and defragged?

Hardware
How much RAM is being used by all programs running on your computer? With 1GB, you should have enough.

CPU Usage
What is the CPU usage when running software? My 1.8GHz runs 15-20% with Audition 1.5, and about 35-48% for the same song in Fruity Loops. Notice that Fruity Loops will say 20% CPU but Windows Task Manager says different.

1.8Ghz should be enough for small to medium projects though. Just observe what's happening on your system. Perhaps leave Windows Task Manager->Performance (Always On Top) to monitor system performance as you record...

Originally Posted by Dubagenic

I haven't yet reserved specific HD space... but I will try it.

Hard-Drive
Your hard-drive is a Toshiba 40-GB 5400 RPM. In most cases for recording purposes, this is not enough. 7200RPM is about as low as you want to go for music production. A solution may be to use another drive (external) to lessen the burden of read/writes.

Audition 1.5 (my software) states about main HDs and 'scratch' HDs;
Temp Folder: Specifies Adobe Audition's main temporary folder. Ideally it should be on your fastest hard drive.
Secondary Temp: Specifies Adobe Audition's secondary temporary folder. For best results, this should be on a different physical hard drive than the primary temp folder. This is especially true when recording more than one track at a time in Multitrack View, because odd track recordings go to one temp folder while the even tracks are recorded to the other temp folder, dividing the workload.

Is the crackle/pop constant always?
Now ask yourself Is the crackling/popping only happening when I'm trying to record & playback? Or always? Does it crackle/pop when you play a song through Winamp or WMPlayer? If so, then there's something wrong with your audio card or drivers, or there is a device conflict.

It only happens during simultaneous recording/playback?

Remember, most laptops are for office applications - over-sized Blackberries. They're not built out of the shop for heavy music productions and multimedia.

IMO, your weakest link is the slow hard-drive. You could probably still use it, but optimally you will want to add a second, faster drive to use for yourself when recording music. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Dubagenic

Ok, let's get to the bottom of this... piece by piece!!

Pretty much that is what you have to do. Piece by piece. Compare your laptop with the laptop that apparently worked and see what difference in hardware/ram/HD is there. I can't find the specs online for the Sony Vaio PCG-7G1M, so I can't compare system specs.

Piece by piece means; I suspect the HD - replace the HD see if problem persists. I suspect the RAM - replace the RAM and see if problem persists. I suspect [whatever] - replace [whatever] and see if problem persists. Format the computer, and do a fresh install of Windows, updates, and drivers. See if problems persist.

Originally Posted by Dubagenic

Would it be possible the M-Audio ASIO drivers are causing some kind of conflict with some part(s) of my computer,
manifested in these strange sounds on the output??

Of course. That's why you have to ensure that they have been patched to the latest update from the M-Audio site, and make sure to enable the driver in your music software.

Originally Posted by Dubagenic

If I try to use some other brand or a different model audio interface and ASIO drivers do you think the problem
still subsists? (I don't know if they all function in the same manner or if they use the same ASIO drivers).

Using the drivers from the manufacturer of the product is always the best way to go.

It's always hard to diagnose and treat a problem online, because it's hard to know what you've done, how you've set up the computer, etc. I'd probably solve this in real life in about 5 minutes. :/

[Silver]

I read with huge interest about Brandon's clicks and pops issue and the fact that you should use a dedicated pc to do your recording. Makes sense but I'm not that endowed with cash ! I'm wondering has anyone ever had their Cubase sx3 settings change on them or lost presets such as eq settings ?

I've just upgraded my memory to 2GB from 1 GB. Thinking this might solve my issue (clicks and pops or even cutting out) imagine my demise when i fired up my project and lo and behold same old problem. Yes I've tried the freeze option for my sampler but the damm thing freeze files misses out part of my song compared to the audio that's recorded. Anybody have the same problem this is sooooooooooo frustration having just come to the time when I'm beginning to understand the programme and various recording/mixing techniques

Silver
Carrilon AC 1
Intel processor 3.2 Ghz
2 GB RAM
Emu 1820m
Full of Tea

[brandondrury]

Makes sense but I'm not that endowed with cash !

I'd consider going dual boot or looking into this:
Dual-boot? No, there's an easier way

Brandon