Automation??

[The Fallen]

Hey Guys, and Ladies
Ive read alot on different posts how automation can drastically improve the leveling of vocals. Now, when I think of automation, I think of "doing automatically". Ive looked into my program help file for this because I have the problem of recording too soft and then too loud when I get into the song. And all I come up with is a bunch of mumbo jumbo that I already do. Basically what I do is insert a volume envelope on the track and then at certain points lower the volume and the points that are too loud and move it up on the parts that are too low. This seems like alot of work and when I have to lower the sound I lose alot of sound and quality, which is the last thing I wan to do in my mixes. I use Cakewalks Pro Tracks. Can anyone tell me what Automation really does and how to use it, and tell me if Im just being a dummy about doing it?

Thanks
-The Fallen-

[Andrew07]

Use a compressor to even out your vocals. It automatically lowers the volume of the signal that passes a threshold, thus making the louder parts softer. Once you have a compressor smoothing out the vocals a bit, you can use automation to move the vocal up or down however many decibels you throughout the song. Automation can be used to change the levels of different instruments/parts throughout a song, can do panning, or even FX. So you can automate reverb to be softer during the verses, then bump it up so many db in the chorus.

I (ME PERSONALLY) use automation to inject emotion or feeling into a mix. for levelling I use a compressor or limiter to tighten up the dynamic variation of a source, and then automate a few decibels here and there to make the mix

[brandondrury]

This seems like alot of work

Automation is a lot of work. Considering the enormous amount of time that I spend tracking a song, automating a vocal is quite a small percentage of time. I'd guess I spend 2 hours automating the vocal of every song I produce.

If you don't want to work, play video games. If you want to make kick ass recordings, you've got to put time into the details. I wouldn't even consider vocal automation a "detail". The vocal is the most important element to most songs. If the singers intent is not passed on to the listener, you've lost and there was no point in recording the song to begin with.

when I have to lower the sound I lose alot of sound and quality, which is the last thing I wan to do in my mixes

I'm not sure what you mean by "alot of sound". If you are saying you lose a lot of volme when you lower the volume, then maybe you shouldn't knock the level down so much. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.

I've never heard a sound quality decrease for lowering the volume of anything. I just hear less of it. Of course, I would only lower the volume of a vocal if it was too loud to begin with.

I don't just automate verses and choruses. A lot of time it gets down to a per syllable thing. It doesn't have to, but this sometimes occurs. It depends on if the style of music allows for extreme compression or not. Pretty songs generally are less tolerant to aggressive compression. Hard rock songs can be mega crushed a lot of the time.

Brandon

[The Fallen]

Andrew07,
Thanks for the help. Im still trying to figure out how to still use my compressors, seems like a simple utility, its just a matter of getting to know it. And now i see automation is NOT automatic . And l like the point that you made that automation can be on more than just volume but also effect and panning. Ive done soem with the panning and automation but not the effects, so I might have to experiment with that.

Brandon,
I know what you mean for taking hours on one vocal track for automating. I guess now that I see what you guys mean by automation, its something that I thought was a "no-brainer" thing when I started and just did it, and I just got confused by the use of the word. Ive taken probably 30-45 minutes trying to automate a vocal track, even down to the syllable as you said. And for the lowering of volume too much, yes, that was the problem. I have a terrible problem with silibance, especially when putting alot of emotion into a song so when I go in and level things out I try to lower that one part where the "S" really sticks out. This might seem like a stupid question but, I assume a pop-filter would get rid of that problem drastically, yes?

Thanks for the help guys
-The Fallen-

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Automation is a lot of work. Considering the enormous amount of time that I spend tracking a song, automating a vocal is quite a small percentage of time. I'd guess I spend 2 hours automating the vocal of every song I produce.

I wouldn't even consider vocal automation a "detail". The vocal is the most important element to most songs. If the singers intent is not passed on to the listener, you've lost and there was no point in recording the song to begin with.

I don't just automate verses and choruses. A lot of time it gets down to a per syllable thing. It doesn't have to, but this sometimes occurs. It depends on if the style of music allows for extreme compression or not. Pretty songs generally are less tolerant to aggressive compression. Hard rock songs can be mega crushed a lot of the time.

Brandon

I don't get this. You're happy to spend a couple of hours injecting emotion into a singer using a slider, but you won't use autotune? These fall under the same category (ie, performance) to me.

Do you ride EQ too to account for natural changes in voice timbre at different volumes?



R.

[brandondrury]

injecting emotion into a singer using a slider

Just for the kids reading along at home, there is no way to inject emotion into a vocal with a slider. However, there is alot of emotion that is lost if you don't pull it up when needed. Breaths are a big deal to me. I pull them up quite a bit, when it adds something. This is mostly caused by the modern density of mixes. In non-loud music (Jazz or classical spring to mind) you don't need this nearly as much. When your mix is stuffed with layers and layers of guitars, loud drums, and then the mastering guy ass pounds the mix to death, you end up losing a lot of subtle idiosyncracies.

I don't get this. You're happy to spend a couple of hours injecting emotion into a singer using a slider, but you won't use autotune? These fall under the same category (ie, performance) to me.

I do use Autotune. I just don't like it. Every pitch issue that you've heard on my recents posts to Bash This Mix had already been tuned when you heard it. In fact, I've tried multiple times to fix a few of these tuning issues even by drawing straight lines (which I sometimes also have to resort to). I guess I don't consider Autotune to be that good.

The biggest thing is the way that Autotune effects the vocal when a singer slides into notes. Personally, I don't have a problem with sliding into notes are using wide vibrato, but autotune totally wrecks these things to me.

I hear autotune on just about every recording made today. I'm not talking about the Cher effect. I'm talking about that phasey kind of sound. I have a hard time with it.

I'll probably end up switching to Melodyne when I have money to burn.

If you've heard me griping about Autotune, it was probably me griping about the obsession with perfection and forgetting about making fun music.

Do you ride EQ too to account for natural changes in voice timbre at different volumes?

Sort of. After the mix is about 95% done (which means I've burned a mix and then listened everywhere at least 5 times) I'll go in and fix words that bug me. When singers get quite the low end can shoot out so I sometimes pull that down, but I just highlight the audio I don't like and process it. I don't really "ride" EQ,.

[The Fallen]

Hey Brandon and Richiebee,
I read about you guys talking about Autotune. What is this? There seems to be quite the controversy over it. From what I understand, does it just correct vocal mishaps in going flat or sharp?

-The Fallen-

[richiebee]

Yes, it corrects intonation. I tested the latest version with Melodyne recently and I think Melodyne sounds better. Melodyne also lets you stretch and compress audio that's badly timed. It shouldn't be used as a crutch, but it can be a big time saver if something needs a quick fix. It can quantize audio as well as auto-tuning, though it can't do either in real time. Autotune just fixes tuning, but it can operate in real time, or as real time as your computer's processor will allow.

Do a search for -

Celemony Melodyne
Antares Autotune

for manufacturer web sites.