Ableton Live

[guitar junkie]

anybody using this?

I have the light version of it now... it only does like four tracks or something so its kind of limited but with time it might be worth getting the full version...

anybody really used it enough to talk about it?

[wallzo298]

yeah, i have just got ableton live 5 (full), because i was looking for software like garageband, but on windows. im kinda at a loss how to use this program, ive mesed about for quite a wile and have barely got the basics. any help?

[brandondrury]

I'm anxious to see how this thread turns out. I've heard good things about Ableton. I have no plans of switching from Cubase SX3. I just want to be on top of the new stuff the best I can.

Brandon

[SoulTrader]

Hi guys. I've been using Ableton live 6 (full version) for a few months now and find its interface really intuitive. It's a lot to get your head round and very different to cubase (which I used to use - I haven't used cubase since SX3, forgive me if my knowledge is out of date.)

Firstly - Cubase is geared around creating a final finished product. You can audition parts as you build up the layers of your track, but you should have a final idea of what the track will sound like.

Live is more geared towards live performance (hence the name), and really strives to allow the interface to integrate with a live performance.

Personally, I use it to create housed up mixes of old disco tunes, mixing them together, adding drums, effects and accapellas.

Live has 2 views, a session view, for creating a live performance and an arrangement view for recording what you have done (this is much similar to the sort of interface you see with cubase and protools)

For each track you can record a series of clips, which can be looped and triggered, so I might have a drum loop going, this will loop indefinitely unless I (a) decide to trigger another loop, perhaps with an odd extra snare in it, much like a real musician will hit, or (b) set up follow actions which enable live to randomly decide whether to play the new loop or repeat the old one. Using follow actions enables you to set up loops that 'jam' with themselves. Add a bit of shuffle in the groove quantize and a loop can really start to approximate a real drummer.

As I'm using dance music, I set up the quantize setting to 4 bars, which means that nomatter when I set a new section going, it won't come in until the right moment.

Also I use warp markers quite extensively. Just as you can timestretch loops in cubase, warp markers allow you to define each beat, or even just the rhythm and Live will automatically make it fit with whatever else is playing (at least in time - you can then adjust the key, if need be). As I use a lot of Disco loops I have to adjust them to fit with dance beats as (apologies to all drummers, but) real drummers don't keep perfect time. The recording then either sppeds up or slows down each section between the markers to make it fit perfectly. This of course means you can incorporate samples from things that would never normally fit, but you can set the markers according to beats, tones or a complex algorithm that smoothes out frequencies that don't fit.

Each horizontal line of clips across the tracks can make up a intro, verse, breakdown or chorus and you can trigger a line at once, so the track will automatically change each instrument at the time you want it to (if you want it to).

Lastly the point I want to make is setting up midi instruments and controls is incredibly easy. I bought an M-Audio midiman radium 69key controller some time ago, but struggled to get it working with cubase (things might have improved since then :-) In Ableton, I selected it from a list in midi preferences and that was it. Worked as a midi keyboard. To use the controllers, just click Midi, Click the feature I want to control (eg resonance on a live plugin), move the slider on the radium and click midi to finish. Moving the slider now controls that input on screen.

Having set this up I can play my PC like an instrument, bringing in sections, maniputating effects, and trying new clips. Live just keeps playing, I don't have to plan it all out beforehand.

When I've got something I like, I hit record and play that arrangement, which is then rendered to disk.

Oh, and it has never once crashed on me. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have given it some hammer.

I would recommend the Live 6 textbook, by John Von Seggern (US not UK!). It's encyclopedic, rather than get going instantly, but it does tell you everything you need to know.

[brandondrury]

Great post, dude!

Brandon

[jdbunda]

Interesting thread. I just bought a M-Audio Profire 610, which comes with Ableton Live 7. I've been trying to figure out how to use the thing to record basically guitar-driven demos. I've been a computer professional for many years, and I am no stranger to learning new systems. I started recording with Sonoma Riffworks (which I got into from Pod/Guitarport). I found Riffworks very easy to understand and get started with - however, Live is a lot more difficult. I get that the more powerful system will have some learning curves - what I have trouble with is the number of hours it has taken me so far to just understand what more I need just to get started.

For example, Riffworks comes with a built-in drum machine. After much fooling around and plowing through the lessons and docs, I figure out that sure, I can build beats using the midi tools, but what - no built-in drum loops, just to show me how to go about it!?!? I did find some free stuff to download on the Ableton site, but I was hoping to have some sort of built-in drum machine like Riffworks, at least a few loops like any $100 keyboard. I suspect I'll end up buying some package of beats, but it sure would have been nice to have even a rudimentary loop or two to play with, and not leave me flailing around trying to find it in the system.

I am also having some trouble figuring out how Live deals with time. As Soultrader says, the interface seems awesome to do live things like he does. It's a different story though if I want to, say, set up a 12-bar blues verse with drums and bass. I'm sure it's possible, I'm just still not sure how to do it. It's not clear to me how to define the timeline - i.e. how do I specify 12 bars of this followed by 8 bars of this, etc.

I am still getting tripped up by which key to press to play my session, `what the different views really mean, the terminology, and no clue about how to do what I want to do.

I read the "getting started" post on this forum about having patience with the ramp-up with a powerful package, but honestly, I am debating about either stepping up to Pro Tools M-Powered (which is only $250 or so), buying Cubase, or should I stick with Live? I could also go back to Riffworks (which can be upgraded to talk to my Profire) but I am already seeing limitations of that package, I think I want something more. I guess I am a little disappointed that Live isn't a little more friendly and usable right out of the box, and none of the lessons seem to demonstrate a work process that is actually like what I do. This is where I sure wish I had that friend who could get me up to speed quickly!

[kevmove02]

Okay, I was going to create a separate thread to discuss this, but it might be more appropriate to share it here. For the longest time, I was frustrated by having invested so much in Steinberg Sequel 2, just to find out that it does not have any midi sync options (never will). I noodled around with various hardware/software combos with limited success. Then I discovered Ableton Live.

This program is so challenging to most because its design philosophy is os different than what we are used to working with. Where other programs excel at providing a closed system for creating music, Ableton Live excels at taking whatever sound source you have available and sync them into a single performance. Obviously, this design is suited best for DJ's, but it has powerful implications for other types of performances.

As an example, I was struggling with using Steinberg Sequel 2 with other programs, due to the midi deficiency. By using Live, Sequel 2 becomes just another instrument! So does everything else! My PSP, tv, or anything else that I run into Live is seen as another sound source that needs to be synced to other existing beats, rhythms or instruments already playing. If you want to read an article that shows a real world application, check out the april edition of Recording Magazine, which breaks down how Chris Cox used Ableton Live to create a Christina Aguilera megamix.

The program can be challenging to use, unless you discipline yourself actually go through the extensive tutorial that is included right on the desktop. If your squeamish about the high buy in cost, get the Live 7 LE version. Avoid the crippled Lite version, as it is not powerful enough to really appreciate what this program can do. Or better yet, download the 14 day trial.

I enjoy using this program so much, I got rid of my standalone recorder!

[Cailyn]

Since Live opens in the session view (looks like a mixing console) most people tend to start operating with this view. I never use this view but instead use the arrangement view which is much more intuitive in setting up the timeline and visualizing the elements of your arrangement. The numbers at the top are the bar count so you use this to visualize the twelve bar theme. Right click on the mouse and add locators to help visualize your place in the music. To play your music, left click anywhere in the music that you want to start and hit the space bar.

Live 7 Suite comes with Session Drums, an incredible set of samples that can be used in single mic or multi-mic mode which are incredibly realistic. I play electronic drums to trigger the samples so I am not familiar with the native beats available with Live.

The learning curve is long and quite steep but well worth it in the end. I recently worked with a recording engineer who has used Pro-Tools for all his studio work but once he saw what I was able to do with Live, has decided to buy the program.

[jdbunda]

Hey thanks all for the responses. I need to figure out how Lite the M-Audio version is - my impression was that it wasn't hopelessly crippled. I will need to spring for Session Drummer at the very least, and I hope I can quickly get to the point where Live helps rather than completely shuts down my "creative process" LOL

[kevmove02]

I played with Live Lite 7 for about 3 hours. The fact that your are limited to basically 8 tracks makes it extremely difficult to do anything meaningful. For example, if you download the demo pack, you will discover that none of the songs can be played in Lite.

On the other hand, someone who is extremely resourceful could probably work with 4 audio and 4 midi tracks, but that, in my opinion, defeats the whole purpose of the program.

If you are looking for a straight ahead, traditional sequencer/DAW, then this program is probably not for you. If you are looking for a program that allows you to quickly sketch out an arrangement, then experiment with different parts in a plug and play fashion, then you will love this program.

This program is simple to start using, but will take a long time to master, because of its depth. This is where I agree with Brandon: pick one program and work with it until you become an expert. For me, Ableton Live is the program of choice.