Ruff Mockup - Bulldozer - Song Structure

[fHumble fHingaz]

This is a rather lengthy tune called "Bulldozer" - It's positively "progressive" (at least compared to my usual tunes). No vocals or any lead guitar yet - In fact I'm going to replace most of the parts with better ones. Mainly after some comments on song structure / arrangement, but any other observations / criticisms are welcome as well... Thanks in advance.

PS - It's a bit slow to get going, but patience will be rewarded...

PPS - Crusty old drum-machine version with vocals is posted in my reply below (2 posts down) so you can get the idea of where this is headed...

[rockerdude]

Nice job FF! I like where this is going.You are getting some really good drum sounds....I hate you......JK!

I like the sound of your kit on this.The toms have a nice big open resonant sound,the kik and snare sound great too.

The snare is sweeeeeeeet,I can hear the ghosting and every nuance.

The bass guitar sound/tone is good but it could be a little better.Did you play with a pick?

The guitar tones are always subjective,I like the clean tones with the delay but the dist tones need some work.

I like how the bass was played it has a bass player feel not a guitar player trying to play bass.Somthing happened to the bass at the fast part, it got lost.

As far as the arrangement I like the intro clean stuff but the fast stuff dist parts don't fit imo.

You have several interesting transition parts and some strong passages for some great vocal melodys.

If you played drums on this you have gotten better at playing, or quantizing/editing.

Overall this is a great start to a new tune.Can't wait to hear it when she's done.

[fHumble fHingaz]

Nice job FF! I like where this is going.You are getting some really good drum sounds....I hate you......JK!

I like the sound of your kit on this.The toms have a nice big open resonant sound,the kik and snare sound great too.

The snare is sweeeeeeeet,I can hear the ghosting and every nuance.

The bass guitar sound/tone is good but it could be a little better.Did you play with a pick?

The guitar tones are always subjective,I like the clean tones with the delay but the dist tones need some work.

I like how the bass was played it has a bass player feel not a guitar player trying to play bass.Somthing happened to the bass at the fast part, it got lost.

As far as the arrangement I like the intro clean stuff but the fast stuff dist parts don't fit imo.

You have several interesting transition parts and some strong passages for some great vocal melodys.

If you played drums on this you have gotten better at playing, or quantizing/editing.

Overall this is a great start to a new tune.Can't wait to hear it when she's done.

Thanks 'dude for your thoughtful & incisive comments... Yeah, the drums were actually played by my drummer friend. (I'm just not a very good drummer, & at this age, I don't think I'm gonna get much better, no matter how much editing I do!) Actually, the performance is his but the actual sounds I completely replaced with Addictive Drums - I was a bit ignorant when I first started using it - now that I've gotten past the over-compressed presets & started creating my own "kits" they're sounding much better. Still, this is really just a scratch track for my drummer to play to again. When he played, he was under-prepared, & a few small bits I had to alter quite radically. Also, one of my tom mics didn't work, so I couldn't really use it - but the essence of his ideas were so good I didn't want to lose them. I'm trying to get a good arrangement for him to play to so I can use my real drum kit.
The guitars & bass are Pod x3 sims at present, but I always try to use real my real valve amps by re-amping for a final mix. I really can't be bothered messing around ad-infinitum with amp-sims to get a decent sound when you can throw an SM57 in front of a cranked amp & instantly get great results! I just use the amp-sims as functioning "sound-enhanced" DI's for tracking with my headphones.
I will definitely keep the fast part though, because this is really the whole point of the track - the soft, funk verses contrasting with the loud & fast choruses. Good call on the bass - I did play it with a pick, but I think I will try fingers - I'm gonna have to watch for it being swamped during the heavy stuff. Incidently, I'm attaching an old, stodgy (Zoom) drum-machine version of the track with this basic arrangement, but including vocals, so I can get some suggestions of how to make it better. It goes down like a storm live, but I want to really refine this one as a definitive recorded version.

[paul999]

Mr. Fhingaz

Very good as usual. First off thanks rocker dude for covering pretty well all the points so I don't need to write as much.

1. I am a bit embarrassed that I liked your addictive drums sooo much Oh well I'm over it now.

2. I thought the dist parts fit when I heard the vox in the mix.

3. The 2 weak points for me are at the end of the chorus during the It's going to run me down parts I think needs to be bigger sounding. The solo as well needs to be bigger sounding. Right now they are a bit of a let down from a writing/sonic perspective.

4. The lyric's lost me at the first line. When the the word standin', walkin' or highway are in the first line it makes me feel like this is going to be another amateur song. I had to go back and make myself listen to them. The lyric's are great I like the subject but the introduction of the words needs to respect the quality of the rest of lyric's.

5. This song would totally kill live. I get that from these recordings.

[fHumble fHingaz]

Hey Paul, thanks for your comments, & good ones they are too!

3. The 2 weak points for me are at the end of the chorus during the It's going to run me down parts I think needs to be bigger sounding. The solo as well needs to be bigger sounding. Right now they are a bit of a let down from a writing/sonic perspective.

That is the feeling I was getting as well - you confirmed my suspicions... Any suggestions on how to make the solo bigger?

When the the word standin', walkin' or highway are in the first line it makes me feel like this is going to be another amateur song.

I laughed when I read this - You make an excellent point, & one that I hadn't really given a second thought up until you mentioned it - You're right, first impressions are everything, so I'll definitely look at this.

Thanks again for commenting - stuff like this you can't pay for!

[fHumble fHingaz]

The guitar tones are always subjective,I like the clean tones with the delay but the dist tones need some work.

I had a play with the distorted tones last night, & the results were revealing, to say the least. Not being an amp-sim kinda guy, I'd never really compared different kinds. I used the JCM 800 model from the Guitar Rig LE software that comes with Sonar for the main distorted riff instead of the Pod X3 sims & A-B'd them... Wow! What a difference! The Guitar Rig sim imediately sat well in the mix without fiddling around with eq etc. Even when I matched the exact settings for each respective sim, the Pod sounded grainy & fizzy by comparison... Having owned & played many Marshalls, I know which one I prefer! Anyone else had this kind of experience?

[paul999]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by fHumble fHingaz

That is the feeling I was getting as well - you confirmed my suspicions... Any suggestions on how to make the solo bigger?

My instincts tell me this needs to be a special solo. Not something that you can really improv through like you might on stage. If a this is not enough I might hook on to the etherial message/feeling in the lyrics with some louder keys too fatten up the rhythm as well. This is a few hours later but I seem to remember that there was no really great intro into the solo like with a good drum fill or something that say's this song is about to crank up another notch.

I laughed when I read this

I am so glad. Criticising lyrics can easily hurt the "soul" of the writer that risked putting pen to paper

[fHumble fHingaz]

I am so glad. Criticising lyrics can easily hurt the "soul" of the writer that risked putting pen to paper

Hey, no problem whatsoever... My pet hate with modern music is asinine/dumb/crap lyrics.

[Adam1423]

sounds awesome, i agree with the bigger sounding solo comment, i also reckon you should use a more of a harsh vocal in the chorus.

[cakewalkgg]

tune sounds great so far... drums are especially good sounding