By "Popular" Demand: The Beat, Raw

[Katress]

here is my song, the beat, raw and busted version.

here's the lowdown:

i took off ALL effects, except pre-sets that are part of the synth voices that i used.

i re-recorded ALL of the vocals.

the only mixing, mastering, editing, effecting, etc is volume control.

there is NO reverb, echo, or compression (except from converting to mp3, which is probably something different anyway).

this is RAW.

__________________________________________________ ______

this is kinda turning into the mix quiz for vocal quality.


i'd like to address some comments from the other board, as per vocal recording, just as an fyi:

i have been working on this song for almost 3 years. i have never been satisfied with the vocals. i have recording this song:

with the computer mic in my bedroom

in a "dry" room with the mic i currently have, on a mic stand, with a pop filter

in my parents' attic, on a mic stand, with a pop filter (the first version you heard)

in my dorm room, with cinder block walls, on the mic stand, with the pop filter

all with unsatisfying results.

the vocals on this version were re-recorded in my dorm room, mic in hand, no pop filter, no mic stand. i just stood there and did the damn thing.

so, with that in mind, fire away! i am interested to see what you all have to say.


p.s. yes, i am singing into the correct side of the mic.

oh, and as for the negativity...i'll be honest, i feel like some of the comments were made not in the spirit of helping, but in the spirit of being condescending, or out of anger or something. however, i took them all seriously and made some improvements that i really like, so thank you nonetheless.

Bash away, just remember that this is an admittedly raw mix, so try to keep comments about "filter this", "compress that" out of it. thanks!!

oh, and one more thing: hints about eq'ing are MOST appreciated!! any little tips or tricks. like, how far off center should adjustments be? i've heard before that your adjustments really shouldn't be that big. is that necessarily true? also, is it normal to only adjust a couple of knobs, or is it normal to adjust them all? is this supposed to be the most time-consuming part of the mixing process? etc...yeah, just eq'ing in general.

[mindundermatter]

Neat. Sounds unique. I didn't hear the original version, but I think you SHOULD add effects to the vocal. As far as EQing, for female vocals, you can cut out most of the lows and you may want to boost somewhere between 3-5kHz. Also, there's a bit of a nasal tone in parts. If you like that or if that's how you want your voice to sound, then leave it as is, otherwise you can cut at 1kHz to take some of that out. Good luck with this. Sounds good so far.

[Katress]

thanks for your comments. i know i SHOULD add effects to the vocal. not to be mean, but, duh. the point was to get hints at how to make them sound more professional before adding effects.

the nasal tone, that's just my voice. its my accent. but thanks for pointing it out.

[lucccien]

Hey Katress, I'm vince and I'm am a novice. Not sure what I'd do to the vocals besides widening the stereo field greatly, or since it sounds like you recorded two separate vocal tracks widening at least one of them as much as possible. I do hope you get some expert advice that works!

I mainly wanted to comment that if you are using sounds from Garageband, then AFAIK they are already professionally mixed and mastered, so you shouldn't need to apply compression or other effects to the Garageband portion of your mix. What made me think this is that I like the RAW sound of your beat you have here better than the other version I listened to!

I do like the overall "feel" of your song and your overall vision! The only thing I notice after repeated listens though is that since you are basically using one chord throughout the whole song, it gets to be monotonous, but that could just be me... :-) Good luck!

[Katress]

"Hey Katress, I'm vince and I'm am a novice. Not sure what I'd do to the vocals besides widening the stereo field greatly, or since it sounds like you recorded two separate vocal tracks widening at least one of them as much as possible. I do hope you get some expert advice that works!"

i don't even know what this means. how do i "widen the stereo field"?


"I mainly wanted to comment that if you are using sounds from Garageband, then AFAIK they are already professionally mixed and mastered, so you shouldn't need to apply compression or other effects to the Garageband portion of your mix. What made me think this is that I like the RAW sound of your beat you have here better than the other version I listened to!"

i agree. when i stripped everything down, i liked the sound better, and it seems as though the vocals sit better, too.

"I do like the overall "feel" of your song and your overall vision! The only thing I notice after repeated listens though is that since you are basically using one chord throughout the whole song, it gets to be monotonous, but that could just be me... :-) Good luck!"

its not the same chord throughout the song. there's even a key change. but perhaps the changes need to be more dramatic?

[lucccien]

Widening the stereo field is the same as increasing the stereo separation (so that the track sounds less in the center, and more in the hard left and hard right).

But vocals are mono, so what I said does not apply anyway. What I intended to say was for you to use a plugin to artificially turn the mono vocals into stereo vocals. BUT...

processing vocals is definitely outside of my range of knowledge or experience, and even though I have other ideas, such as recording another track of nearly identical vocals, and then panning the original vocals hard left, and the 2nd vocals hard right -- I better leave it to someone that knows more than I do.

i agree. when i stripped everything down, i liked the sound better, and it seems as though the vocals sit better, too.

Definitely. Now after you add FX to the vocals (which hopefully someone can elaborate on), the vocals need be compressed and EQd, among other things, but JUST the vocals (and the keys too if they aren't from Garageband). But again, I'll leave the details to the pros.

Hmmmm... Now to me, there is a B Flat Major Chord constantly through the first 2/3 of the song! Or at least a single B flat note. (I had to find the chord on my keyboard.) I do hear other subtle things going on with the keys, but this chord or b flat key seems to stay. I did notice the key change later in the song, so to be more precise (again), I meant the first 2/3 of the song. Of course it's not the keys themselves that make it sound monotonous -- the vocals play an even larger role.

When you changed up the keys after the slow break, it's not as monotonous anymore. It's like you've started to play your "remix" at that point. :-)

[Katress]

the entire point of this thread is to get help with eqing the vocals to get the highest quality sound from my signal chain. that's it. i appreciate the willingness to help, though.

"processing vocals is definitely outside of my range of knowledge or experience, and even though I have other ideas, such as recording another track of nearly identical vocals, and then panning the original vocals hard left, and the 2nd vocals hard right -- I better leave it to someone that knows more than I do."

this is exactly what will be done. there are actually two vocal tracks right now, but since this is not mixed or mastered, it may not be obvious. you don't even have to rerecord them. just copy and paste. panning is not difficult. and what you are talking about previously is called ducking. all of which are part of the mixing/mastering process that has not been done yet on this track, as per the first post.

"Definitely. Now after you add FX to the vocals (which hopefully someone can elaborate on), the vocals need be compressed and EQd, among other things, but JUST the vocals (and the keys too if they aren't from Garageband). But again, I'll leave the details to the pros."

again, familiar with this process...

"Hmmmm... Now to me, there is a B Flat Major Chord constantly through the first 2/3 of the song! Or at least a single B flat note. (I had to find the chord on my keyboard.) I do hear other subtle things going on with the keys, but this chord or b flat key seems to stay. I did notice the key change later in the song, so to be more precise (again), I meant the first 2/3 of the song. Of course it's not the keys themselves that make it sound monotonous -- the vocals play an even larger role."

most songs remain in a single key the entire song. the dominance of the Bb note is due to the dominance of the synth that is playing it, and since the song isn't actually mixed and mastered, its more dominant than it will be when i'm done.

once there is a solid foundational vocal, i will do ad libs etc to make it less monotonous. for now i'm just trying to get assistance with eqing the vocals, as i said before.

"u changed up the keys after the slow break, it's not as monotonous anymore. It's like you've started to play your "remix" at that point. :-)"

i don't see how this is possible. all i did was change the key and add a guitar melody. everything else is exactly the same. trust me, the remix that already exists for this song is much different.

[lucccien]

You are very knowledgeable, thanks for the term ducking. I'd heard this before but I don't use it.

Also thanks for being patient and clearing up the other stuff. I think I'll say less in the future, meaning, I should have just said "the Garageband stuff is already mixed/mastered AFAIK, so you only need to mix/master the stuff outside of Garageband like the vocals and keys." <-- and that's it! LOL

[mindundermatter]

Be sure that if you are just copying and pasting the same track that one of them is delayed, otherwise this does absolutely nothing as they will sum to mono.

[BludgeoningSpawn]

Whatever adjustments you make should be suitable for the music you are trying to create.

The biggest problem with the vocal sound (apart from frequent intonation issues) is that there is this nasal "twang" as mentioned above - and as someone well versed in vocal coaching, I can hear that not all of this is natural voice - there is equipment colouration that translates into a kind of muted overall sound.

The net effect of this colouration is to make the voice sound as if it's crammed into a small area, although it's clear from the singer's approach that the intent is to sound expansive (and club-filling, to take a cue from the lyrics).

Concentrate on EQing the area suggested by mindundermatter - somewhere in that dial is a setting that will bring out the colour you want in your voice.

The other EQ bands will also help with colouration, as you know, but there is no standard. This is something you have to work at, like getting the tone you want from your voice in the first place. Getting the tone from the equipment takes the same amount of playing around/practicing, because ultimately, the tone you're trying to get is YOUR tone, not someone else's - and maybe a different mic.

Hope this doesn't come across as condescending - but if it does, then I won't be surprised. I'm always accused of being patronising - but I am only trying to be helpful in my way. No offence meant.