Are you hearing what you remember?

[bobbybovine]

For shits and giggles I decided to throw on some of my favorite recordings for a listen. What I noticed is a lot of stuff that if it was in "Bash this recording" I would suggest get addressed. For example, more high bass that I usually have in, the vocals more "tucked" under the instruments, some low mid build up. Specifically I was listening to Dream Theater - Falling into Infinity and Octavarium, Alice in Chains - Black Gives way to Blue. Now what I did notice in the low mids of all of these is it really adds a density to the mix, especially distorted guitar. what surprised me most was the vocals sitting in more than I remembered they did. Does anyone else listen to a song that they would use for a reference and say, wow, I didn't notice how much of that there is or vice versa, which differs from your memory?

[maschneid]

I agree 100%, and do tend to notice those kinda things in music now. It's all very subjective though. Who are we to say this should have been different when the album may have went on to be gold or platinum hits! I'm sure that the engineers go back and listen and think the same thing. The taste by general listeners changes and thus the mixes change.

For example when I listen to In Flames albums such as Clayman, or even Soundtrack To Your Escape, the Drums don't cut through the mix like they do in todays metal music. Especially the kick

[Stan_Halen]

I don't usually hear something different than I remember, but I am hearing it differently than I used to. Listening with "more experienced" ears I suppose, which can be an obstacle to actually just listening and enjoying vs. "critical" listening. It's hard to get out of critical mode and just listen for fun. I hear it the same as before, but find myself making judgements as to how the recording/mixing was handled compare to more modern standards. Many times I just want to throw my left-brain analysis out the window so I can hear the music the way I used to - obliviously joyful. Most music I listen to was pre-digital and pre-ITB etc, and a lot of times it seems like comparing apples to oranges ...

[bobbybovine]

I don't usually hear something different than I remember, but I am hearing it differently than I used to. Listening with "more experienced" ears I suppose, which can be an obstacle to actually just listening and enjoying vs. "critical" listening. It's hard to get out of critical mode and just listen for fun. I hear it the same as before, but find myself making judgements as to how the recording/mixing was handled compare to more modern standards. Many times I just want to throw my left-brain analysis out the window so I can hear the music the way I used to - obliviously joyful. Most music I listen to was pre-digital and pre-ITB etc, and a lot of times it seems like comparing apples to oranges ...

Great point, I have noticed over the last 2 months how I hear things differently. I can still just listen and not focus on the mix elements, thankfully. But when I listen to Avenged Sevenfold, I get more into it because that mix sounds like a mix I would aim to achieve. It is all subjective tastes. It appears my tastes are similar to Andy Wallace's tastes

[aj113]

Regrettably I've been cursed with listening to music with critical, analytical, "producer" ears for approximately the last 30 years, ever since I discovered that I have critical, analytical "producer" ears in fact.

That's why during the last 30 years I have rarely listened to music for pleasure. Listening for pleasure is just too much hard work.

[bobbybovine]

Regrettably I've been cursed with listening to music with critical, analytical, "producer" ears for approximately the last 30 years, ever since I discovered that I have critical, analytical "producer" ears in fact.

That's why during the last 30 years I have rarely listened to music for pleasure. Listening for pleasure is just too much hard work.

Oh man that sucks. I don't want to lose my ability to ignore the technical aspects and just enjoy the song. I still love some of the old bootleg live stuff from years ago. Although the better the production the more I usually enjoy it. There are a couple of albums however that I HAVE to eq because there is too much midrange for my liking, but the songs are killer.

[Stan_Halen]

But when I listen to Avenged Sevenfold, I get more into it because that mix sounds like a mix I would aim to achieve.

I can't say I'm a big Avenged Sevenfold fan, but I really liked one of their songs: "Bat Country" (off of City of Evil). It's one of those wild and "exciting" songs that I love to listen to and I get so caught up in the energy that I don't bother critiquing the mix. There might be 100 things "wrong" with that mix, but it's such a cool song I don't care!

[bobbybovine]

I can't say I'm a big Avenged Sevenfold fan, but I really liked one of their songs: "Bat Country" (off of City of Evil). It's one of those wild and "exciting" songs that I love to listen to and I get so caught up in the energy that I don't bother critiquing the mix. There might be 100 things "wrong" with that mix, but it's such a cool song I don't care!

I am not big on their first album either, I really only listen to Nightmare and at first only because of Portnoy, but I got into it. Some songs could be recorded in the shittiest way possible but still kick ass.

[rook2c4]

That's why during the last 30 years I have rarely listened to music for pleasure. Listening for pleasure is just too much hard work.

I tend to analyze the composition more than I used to - song structure, choice of notes, rhythmic approach, how the instruments work together - but rarely do I analyze how the music was mixed. So generally, I still listen for pleasure... it's just at a different level than when I was a clueless teenager.

[aj113]

I tend to analyze the composition more than I used to - song structure, choice of notes, rhythmic approach, how the instruments work together - but rarely do I analyze how the music was mixed. ....

I do the whole fecking lot. I can't stop myself. Hence why it is hard work to listen for pleasure.

[garww]

" which differs from your memory"?

Not very often. Most of my careers were based on memory skills. Not that I'm so good, but one trick is to learn what to commit to memory. At age 62, I don't have a lot of skill in that department anymore ! Ha ! But, I would be good if I were to approximate tracks levels for most any song I ever heard - I would pay attention to that sort of stuff.

[bobbybovine]

I suppose this will be drastically different depending on the person. Up until about 3 years ago I was a musician (ok drummer) that was only concerned with musician stuff, you know technical ability, song structure, what key, harmonies, all that fun stuff. But now since I decided I wanted to delve into the world of AE, I still care about that stuff but now I feel like I am going to the quantum level and finding out why that snare sounds good, or why that guitar sounds like it does. I always had a sense and could tweak those in a live setting but I think I just listened to songs on a level where does the song excite me, and can I play it and if not I wanna find out how to. I would think that if you got into AE early on like so many now that you may not notice a difference over a long period of time. But since I have come at music from both the musician preAE and now studying the fundamentals and techniques of AE I notice a significant difference.

[Emma]

But since I have come at music from both the musician preAE and now studying the fundamentals and techniques of AE I notice a significant difference.

I've noticed a huge difference in my listening over the past year as I've dived into AE in my own emma-way... I noticed it particularly when I listened to a Damien Rice cd - 9 Crimes, and I was blown away by how variable the volume was and the very home-grown feel to it all... I laughed at myself as I thought of ways he could have 'tidied things up' a bit... OMG Emma... For me, the 'feel' of the music is my key engager, but I think it's kinda funny to see me critiquing in others the issues that I've been having to deal with myself I think a bit of knowledge enhances the listening experience but... at times it certainly distracts me from the pure simple pleasure of listening.

I find that anywhere I go, I'm listening out to the music, figuring stuff out and analysing... It's certainly made me open to a lot more musical styles and genres than I was before, just for the interest in trying to unpick how stuff was done... and when I hear older stuff... it sure is way different to how I remember it... interesting!! And perhaps a bit sad as well...?

[bobbybovine]

I've noticed a huge difference in my listening over the past year as I've dived into AE in my own emma-way... I noticed it particularly when I listened to a Damien Rice cd - 9 Crimes, and I was blown away by how variable the volume was and the very home-grown feel to it all... I laughed at myself as I thought of ways he could have 'tidied things up' a bit... OMG Emma... For me, the 'feel' of the music is my key engager, but I think it's kinda funny to see me critiquing in others the issues that I've been having to deal with myself I think a bit of knowledge enhances the listening experience but... at times it certainly distracts me from the pure simple pleasure of listening.

I find that anywhere I go, I'm listening out to the music, figuring stuff out and analysing... It's certainly made me open to a lot more musical styles and genres than I was before, just for the interest in trying to unpick how stuff was done... and when I hear older stuff... it sure is way different to how I remember it... interesting!! And perhaps a bit sad as well...?

Well spoken and exactly the point I was trying to make.

[Styles Bitchley]

I have a frame of reference that borders on garww's, so there are a lot of songs floating around in my head that do not have the sonic impact I placed on them in my memory vs. the reality of how they were recorded. It's interesting how a great song can have such an emotional impact regardless of the technical aspect of its' makeup. There's no question that great engineering and production can enhance a recording dramatically, but a great song recorded poorly will still have more impact and lasting attachment than an okay song that is impeccably recorded and produced. You always used to read about groups spending pantloads of money on their records, and wondered why when the record didn't really connect with you. I can still be floored by some of the old stuff, and never worry about how the kick drum is a little muddy, or some other minor detail, as long as the music hits me. The only music I can't listen to for pleasure is my own, because of my penchant for being my own worst critic.

[garww]

"You always used to read about groups spending pantloads of money on their records, and wondered why when the record didn't really connect with you. I can still be floored by some of the old stuff, and never worry about how the kick drum is a little muddy, or some other minor detail, as long as the music hits me".

Ya, I said more than a couple times I give up on many groups after their first two or three albums. I find they become fake entities too often. But I'm pretty sensitive to fake drums and fake amps - fake boobs and fake bacon. But the other thing is, many people did spend a lot of energy and money on the ritual of listening to albums. We knew fully well the different snares - or lack of. That's often why many re-masters are so painful to listen to.

[bobbybovine]

"You always used to read about groups spending pantloads of money on their records, and wondered why when the record didn't really connect with you. I can still be floored by some of the old stuff, and never worry about how the kick drum is a little muddy, or some other minor detail, as long as the music hits me".

Ya, I said more than a couple times I give up on many groups after their first two or three albums. I find they become fake entities too often. But I'm pretty sensitive to fake drums and fake amps - fake boobs and fake bacon. But the other thing is, many people did spend a lot of energy and money on the ritual of listening to albums. We knew fully well the different snares - or lack of. That's often why many re-masters are so painful to listen to.

There are very very few re masters that I like better than the original. It always seems to strip the personality and feel of the original.

[brandondrury]

Does anyone else listen to a song that they would use for a reference and say, wow, I didn't notice how much of that there is or vice versa, which differs from your memory?

I once heard a mix that didn't suprise me at all back in 2004 or so. That was weird.

I think finding ways to still enjoy music for fun is not only healthy but I think it's required to do the gig any justice. If music fans aren't making music, then who is? Coca-Cola? Tyco? Enron?

One way to do this is to make sure you are listening on bad stereos. When nothing can sound good, you quit looking for it.

Brandon

[bobbybovine]

One way to do this is to make sure you are listening on bad stereos. When nothing can sound good, you quit looking for it.

I have a hard time with this one. I can't listen to ear buds, makes me sick and hurts my ears. All my headphones are of decent quality and are able to reproduce lows fairly well. I suppose my van with crappy 6" speakers is about the worst but I usually don't have anything on there. I am tainted.

[the evil]

Another thing to consider, at least i do this, is i will hear things ins ongs that really like whether it was overall production, a certian guitar tone, snare etc. then when i go back and listen to the technical aspect i say the opposite of what i liked. For instance, this album came out and i really like the music, the band, etc. but i thought the drums sounded awesome at the time, i was convinced it was the best drum sound i ever heard. Flash forward a year and im starting to really getting into the engineering gig, so i decided i wanted to try to emulate the drum sounds. now when i listen to it the drums sound horrible. So what was the difference? did my ears improve or was i just hearing things from a different aspect, how could i go from loving to hating something that fast? In my few years of doing this what i have noticed is that enoying a song is completely different than listening to the technical aspects of the song and analyzing what is goin on. When you are listening for something on purpose you will hear it, when youre happily enjoying the music you will go back to finding the sounds you originally loved. So when listening from the enthusiast view and the engineering view you may have 2 completely different thoughts of a song, recording, etc. I honestly cant imagine not listening to music for enjoyment anymore and i feel sorry for the guys that cant do this. I do find myself analyzing songs but its usuallyon stuff that i hear and i love, i would say half the time i change my opinion about that after really listening, or finding that it was something else in the mix making X instrument be able to stand out in that way.

[garww]

Well, I can have those "revelations", but it's more of a; " if you've seen one vigaina, you've seen them all". I've gone 50-years before I ever heard the STEREO version of many songs and it can take me awhile to figure out why it's sounds so odd : ) But even back in '60s, there could be great concern as to why there where many different releases of the same song. Besides play length and lyric censorship, they used differrent mixes - usually pretty obvious.

[rook2c4]

So when listening from the enthusiast view and the engineering view you may have 2 completely different thoughts of a song, recording, etc.

Yeah, often when people get into audio engineering, after a while they develop preconceptions (and hang-ups!) of how drums are "supposed" to sound like, how guitars are "supposed" to sound like, etc., and thereby lose perspective on the real goal - making exciting and interesting music that has emotional impact. You have to be able to step back and figure out what really matters... and listen to the music with the ears of a non-engineer.

[IMF OnSite Recording]

Good engineers find out what's best for the song and not try to force their idea of what something should sound like. Although, even when having unique tones for each song they mix, they still have a common taste among them all, which is why they are called upon for what they do.

[brandondrury]

I can't listen to ear buds, makes me sick and hurts my ears.

When it's a necessity, you'll adapt. When it's not, you'll do like I did and not use them until it is a necessity. I hated earbuds, but those $80 Klipsche thingies sound fine to me now. I still don't want to do the stock iPod earbuds. That's just awful.

In my few years of doing this what i have noticed is that enoying a song is completely different than listening to the technical aspects of the song and analyzing what is goin on. When you are listening for something on purpose you will hear it, when youre happily enjoying the music you will go back to finding the sounds you originally loved. So when listening from the enthusiast view and the engineering view you may have 2 completely different thoughts of a song, recording, etc.

Yup, it's the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal from physics applies to music.

The second you actually "look" into the music, you officially are useless. You have absolutely no clue what anyone will like...not that this matters entirely.

This is one reason I've had a pop awakening since 2010 or so (and my phase is coming to an end). It's good to hear what the masses think is reality just to keep me from falling too far off the grid.

The worst side of this is dealing with tone-obsessed clients who's only perspective is their one instrument. They INCREDIBLY overestimate guitar levels in old punk and metal records.