Why don't my mixes sound loud, clear, and powerful?

[thirteeninvitations]

I have invested a lot of time, money and effort into making music. It seems like fucking vacuum on my bank account. It seems no matter how hard I try my mixes sound like shit -- or like something made in the 80s or 90s at best.. even then some things just suck aboutthe mixes.

It's rather frusterating because I always considered myself rather creatve with music, and pretty good at all instruments. But now I'm getting older, and still have absolutely nothing released, nothing to be proud of, while other artists have a dozen perfect, professionally made albums. It's frusterating It makes me think, "i dont have what it takes." But I know the truth, that some engineers make them sound good.

Now I know, immediately I'm gonna get some replies saying, "its not the engineers, mics, preamps, converters, rooms, computers, software, plugings and exceptional knowledge on how to use them that makes them sound good," -- its just in the arists hands. That's the biggest bullshit ever. If that's your opinion then don't even bother replying, please. I want to talk to people who know the truth, and speak the truth.. have no time or liars, or the deceived.

What is being done to mixes these days to make them sound so incredibly loud, and sparkling perfect? I don't understand.. truly. I've messed with so many plugins, tried a million settings. As I said, my stuff sounds like something from the 80s/90s at best. What am I missing?

Also, take an engineering/mixer who is just really damn good. I just can't believe someone randomly becomes like that out of thin air. Like, they just woke up, and suddely are godlike at all aspects of recording, mixing, mastering. It's impossible to have not been shown some secrets or how things are done to achieve the true results. To do it on your own would be like reinventing the wheel x 10000.

I don't really see myself progressing at all with mixing, mastering, and engineering until someone actually shows me what to do, and how to improve.

Another confusing battle is trying to figure out if you are just using equipment wrong, or if the equipment you have does in fact suck, and need upgrading, because if you have never use high end stuff, how would you know?

It's just depressing.. that's how I feel about this world these days... like you have to wait to be "blessed" or "let in the door," assuming you ever do, or else you're just nothing.

If it didn't bother me, or I wasn't interesting in success, then I wouldn't post this. Obviously I want success, the ability to make bad ass music.

[aj113]

You need to change your attitude dude. The fact that you have tried multiple plugins and effects and yet still do not have good results is a big clue that it's NOT the gear, and it IS the producer and his ears. Why do you think top line producers get paid so much? Because they have ears and a brain, not because they have latest magic black box.

You think you can buy your way to a good mix? Wrong. I get pretty good results with barely more effects and plugins than what came with the DAW. You want to be shown what to do? Stop squawking like a baby, post some of your stuff to BTR and listen to what people tell you.

[kakeux]

RR is a nice place for such questions. What I can suggest is: post a mix with no processing on the master buss, post the same mix with the processing on the master buss, so that we can compare and start to help. Use the "Nail the sound" or "bash this" forums for it.

Ears are the tools. However some understanding of what you're doing definitely help. Once posted, knock on my door and I will try to help as much as I can.

Cheers!

[fHumble fHingaz]

Also, take an engineering/mixer who is just really damn good. I just can't believe someone randomly becomes like that out of thin air. Like, they just woke up, and suddely are godlike at all aspects of recording, mixing, mastering. It's impossible to have not been shown some secrets or how things are done to achieve the true results. To do it on your own would be like reinventing the wheel x 10000.

That's exactly right, they didn't just "wake up" - they worked their butts off, recorded & mixed hundreds & hundreds of records & improved microscopically, incrementally with each mix.... You know what a good recording & mix is? It's DAMN HARD WORK - the harder you work, the better it gets.

I'm assuming you play an instrument/instruments... Tell me - did you suddenly pick up you instrument of choice & play like a virtuoso immediately?

No! Even to get to an average level, playing an instrument takes a LOT of hours... I've personally been playing guitar for 36 years, & I'm still learning & improving... It's been said that for someone to reach virtuoso level, it takes somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000 hours... now, whether that's accurate or not, who can say?

The fact is that Jimmy Hendrix, EVH, SRV, Dimebag etc etc - those guys spent just about every waking hour playing their instrument....& it shows.

... Do you think that recording & mixing is any different?

I don't really see myself progressing at all with mixing, mastering, and engineering until someone actually shows me what to do, and how to improve.

HELLO! What on earth do you think this site is for? To discuss the market price of wheat?

It sounds to me like you're trying to find some magical shortcut to a great recording/mix... The bad news is that THERE IS NONE!

The sooner you accept that, knuckle down & start working on training yourself to develop the skills you need through practice, the sooner you'll start the long haul to improvement. As AJ said, good place to start is posting a song on BTR - that's right, not a clip, not a riff, not a drum track - a SONG... Then LISTEN & apply the advice given. If you want get into the mixing area, but you haven't got any songs, why not join the Slate Cup? The people taking part in that are supercharging their mixing (& most importantly) the listening skills every month... Their mixes are improving in leaps & bound every month.

[Firedance]

OP, while I agree with the posters, it's obvious that you are very frustrated. I feel a bit like you do sometimes and I can understand.

Take a deep breath and go back to basics is my advice. Try to make the simple stuff sound as good as you possibly can, then move on. You seem to want it all yesterday but it's not going to happen.

And yeah, definitely post on BTR

Good luck!

[fHumble fHingaz]

I didn't mean to sound unsympathetic, because we've all been there...

... but I really think you need to "dive right in" & "just do it" - If you are determined enough, you WILL get better

[aj113]

I DID mean to sound unsympathetic. We're all here grinding our nuts off here to just to get our current mix that tiny little bit better than the last one, and the OP wants a fairy to come down and sprinkle magic mix dust over his work. It's just not going to happen. The wishbone will never replace the backbone.

[fHumble fHingaz]

The wishbone will never replace the backbone.

I like that - can I use it?

[ff_]

I remember of me years ago; I was a beginner, and all my mixes sounded like crap.
But I motivated myself, and worked hard, bought new gear, learnt how to make the best use of it and improved my ears;
and now I can obtain some pretty decent mixes!

Listen, mix, listen again, mix again, keep on working, the improvements will come!

[bobbybovine]

thirteen, I hear what you are saying. I can be very frustrating to not see any progression if you are stuck in a rut. But like the other posts above, it is hard work and some sacrifice to learn the craft. However, in reading your post I am wondering what your monitoring situation is like. If you keep trying (which shows you aren't opposed to hard work and effort) and your mixes seem to suffer from the same flaws, then maybe you just aren't hearing what you need to hear. If you are looking to get PRO mix quality, not only does it take a keen ear for creating emotional content and a proficiency with all the gear and/or plugins but you need to actually hear what is happening. So I would start there, get your room sounding as good as you can, spend your money on creating that environment, I guarantee the top dogs in the industry are working in great sounding rooms. Now once the room sounds good, ALL those tools you are using suddenly will sound better and work better since you can actually hear what is happening.

One more thing that comes to mind is what type of ear are you using? Are you using the song writers ear? The musicians ear? The general listeners ear? The mixers ear? etc. If you are only listening with the musicians ear you aren't gonna be able to critically assess all the elements of the mix, you need to learn to switch between all the perspectives and this is probably one of the hardest things to learn (and I certainly can''t switch between all of them).

I hate to see someone totally frustrated at not getting what they want from something, but I assume you started down this path because it was a passion. If you are getting more frustration than enjoyment from it then you need a break, to assess where your head is and then come back to it when you have a fresh mind and excitement over working on your passion.

[Firedance]

stuck in a rut

That's it in a nutshell.

I firmly believe that if you don't feel you are learning, improving all the time there is something radically wrong - somewhere.

I'm still very new to all this myself. 18 months ago I was delighted that I could create anything. Less than a year ago I posted my one and only finished mix so far - I wouldn't say I was "proud" of it, but I was reasonably happy with it - at the time.
Now, listening to it, whilst it isn't exactly disastrous, it does make me cringe.

The mixing I'm doing now (that I'm fairly happy with so far) I will no doubt look back on as a "rough mix" in about 6 months time.

That guitar sound that seemed lovely and crunchy and heavy a few months ago now just seems naive and brutally unsubtle.

That spacious reverb last November now seems totally OTT and almost comical etc etc

For me, the occasional leap or revelation aside, I have no doubt that the increments of progress will continue to become smaller, but as long as there is progress, slow though it may be, I'm relatively happy.

[m24p]

Post. Examples.

Also, compare how you feel about your mixes to how you feel about mixes that make the sweet sixteen in the digital cup. Do they sound better than your mixes? If so, why?

Even better, make a goal to get in the sweet sixteen for the digital cup.

I've done a quick mix for someone in Reaper with free plugins only so they can open up the project and see how I treated their tracks. If you like my mixes and think I have anything to offer you, post some tracks for a song you mixed and your mix of it on dropbox and I'll try to find time to give it a go.

Love maytwentyfourth productions Hated mix
Sometimes I Feel Like a Landmine - maytwentyfourth productions
Fire inside maytwentyfourth productions

Question: have you read Killer Home Recording?

[jackslab1]

I can tell ya I was in the same boat (and still am sometimes) I would get so frustrated I would just give up and consider selling everything. But I just couldn't. What helped me the most was checking everything I could on youtube and other web sites. The more you read and watch tut. videos, the more you get an understanding of what you're doing wrong and how to fix it. Knowledge is power and it WILL help you get out of the rut your in. My .02.

[Zghenni]

Hey man... don't take it too hard...


I have to say somethings


1) First of all... I don't think that 80s and 90s mixes is that bad... realy ! not at all. Even 70s and 60s mixes...


2) I'm getting old too and FF is right when he says that the big boys mix like a charm because they did and still do it many times all the time. I work all day, have wife and kids. Music is my passion and hobby... I wish I have more free time to compose, play, record, mix and master. Realy... My plan ? If I win the lottery, I'll quit my job and will work for free in a studio. Realy !


3) Don't be frustrated when posting some mix on bash it or slate cup and some one starts saying that there's no lows enough... maybe someone else will say that you managed the lows well... my tip is... read the comment and try to solve the possible issue. Then, compare your new mix to your old mix and decide which one sounds better to you. I have a clue that CLA (for exemple) is today's big boy because one day he did it diferently and people liked it... more than this... people started to copy him... and defined a new pattern... just it...


4) Again... if it sound good to you... or to your client... it's ok.

Regards

Badá

[aj113]

I like that - can I use it?

Yeah go for it - feck knows where I got it from but it's not mine.

[rook2c4]

You need to precisely identify what things in your mixes that you don't like. Then focus one at a time on each issue and work to make them better. You may need to do a lot of experimenting to find out how to get the sound you are looking for.

[shackman]

I DID mean to sound unsympathetic.

Yup, there are some hard-hearted tough guys around here who think it's neat to be nasty. AJ's a star.

There is also a load of good advice.

[garageband]

I've always thought that if you're there, by definition, you're in the position. You can't just leave it for someone else who might happen along to do it.

[garww]

I remember of me years ago; I was a beginner, and all my mixes sounded like crap.
But I motivated myself, and worked hard, bought new gear, learnt how to make the best use of it and improved my ears;
and now I can obtain some pretty decent mixes!

Listen, mix, listen again, mix again, keep on working, the improvements will come!

Listening can go a long way in every aspect of life. By listening, you will reform the uneducated insights that we all are burdened with. For example, what it is you think your speakers are doing.

[bholst]

"its not the engineers, mics, preamps, converters, rooms, computers, software, plugings and exceptional knowledge on how to use them that makes them sound good," -- its just in the arists hands. That's the biggest bullshit ever.

What makes you so sure? Care to elaborate? I have plenty of examples that say otherwise...

An engineer, mics, preamps, etc, isn't what makes the song. Surely you're familiar with the cliche, "polishing a turd".
Have Eric Clapton and I both play the same guitar parts... Have the best mix engineer with the best gear mix mine, Clapton records on my phone's voicemail.
Clapton would still outsell me every.single.time. There is more to the song than the mix.

I get what you're saying there, I just think you're taking the other extreme.

-holster

[Styles Bitchley]

The only thing that I would add, and truly in the interest of trying to be helpful, is that I've read a couple of your posts in other areas about getting an exact replica of a guitar tone, and also about modding amps, so it's apparent that you're sincere about getting things to sound exactly how you want them. The most important thing I've learned here is that how you record on the way in is crucial. In other words, if you get something to sound right at the input stage, then you'll have a lot less to worry about in terms of fixing things later. If what you hear in the box is not what you hear outside of the box, such as in the case of having a poor monitoring system, then you're always fixing things, and chasing corrections with plugs that are designed to enhance, not correct the signal. Once you get the sound you're looking for on the way in, then it's a lot easier to improve the overall mix, and the art of it becomes knowing how the various elements interact, and how to keep the various parts from stepping all over each other. There are plenty of people on here that can help you with that, but if you're so frustrated that you want to quit, you're either having trouble getting what you hear from what you are playing to sound the same in the recording, or your standards are a bit higher than your current experience, which just means you need more experience. With a little patience both are fixable.

[aj113]

Yup, there are some hard-hearted tough guys around here who think it's neat to be nasty. AJ's a star.

This is what Shackman originally posted, if you're wondering what GB's subsequent post is all about:

Tough love huh? That all right when it comes from soneone in a position to give it! I'm not certain, AJ, that you are!

Not sure why he claimed that the edit was due to spelling, looks to me like it's a total rewrite.

[rook2c4]

An engineer, mics, preamps, etc, isn't what makes the song. Surely you're familiar with the cliche, "polishing a turd".
Have Eric Clapton and I both play the same guitar parts... Have the best mix engineer with the best gear mix mine, Clapton records on my phone's voicemail.
Clapton would still outsell me every.single.time. There is more to the song than the mix.

Definitely truth to that.

Some musicians just know how to arrange and perform music so that it sounds awesome right out of the box; the engineer doesn't need to work that hard to make it "powerful". If you are dealing with a band of musicians (rather than a solo performer), how the music is arranged - so that the individual parts of the instrumentation work together and compliment each other - can make a world of a difference on the final mix. But if the instruments are fighting each other, the engineer is going to have a tough time trying to get any kind of "clarity" going in the mix. Incidently, Clapton has a great ear concerning how different parts compliment each other. As do quite a few other top name musicians.

[the evil]

well my questions are what exactly isnt loud clear or poweful? That is the first place i would look. solo each instruments or a group of instruments and try to figure out what is not right. i would nt worry about the loudness until you have the other 2 dialed in, because im pretty sure if you are getting clear and powerful mixes the loudness part wont be tough.
This is a learning process and not everyone can do it to the vision in their head, just like not everyone is not a pro athlete, artist, or oil tycoon. Some have a gift that comes naturally and others will stryggle trying to get there. I dont know which is a better way to go, but the harder the road is usually the greater the reward.
I think everyone here and even the top producers and engineers are still learning something with this gig, and to be great at anything you have to have determination and put in time. Over the last year i have hardly even had a chance to mix anything. i think i learn just as much when im away reading other peoples experiences and putting that against my own trials and all the things i have done and either figured out or miserably failed at. There is never a one way for this thing, and just about the time when yo uthink you got something nailed is about the time you are going to have your biggest failure. youre either are going to love this or absolutely hate it, but either way you are going to end up crazy.

[venuestudio]

Keep this in mind to, just because you are a great player doesn't mean you will ever become a great mixing engineer. For every band that does its own mixing there are a few thousand that go to a studio. I would suggest doing this, take your best song to a studio and have them track it and mix it. Once it is were you want it ask for the tracks (pre-processing) and the stereo stems. Then bring them home and take a shot at them yourself and see if you can recreate the sound. If you can, it is your tracking, if not you have a lot of work to get where you want to be. This craft takes time to learn, years and years.