Wee problem with drum micing

[fluxrecordingco]

So right now, I have a projectmix i/o with pro tools and some pretty cheap drum mics that work well (CAD 7 piece kit). But I have one problem, and I want to get a second opinion. Whenever I mic drums i have to turn down the knobs, controlling the input sound, all the almost all the way so my recording does'nt peak. I know this is a noob question, but I really need to figure out what to buy. Either I go expensive and get a 8 track mixer, and run that mixer into the project mix (which was recommended to me), or find a cheap preamp that has 8 things diminish the input more and run that preamp into the projectmix.
The mixer seems way to much to do such a little thing.
And I haven't been able to find a preamp that has 8 inputs.

Thanks for reading!

LO
VE

Tom

[Vulconizer]

Would the mics happen to have pads on them to knock down the input level?

Can you move them a bit back from the drums in order to lessen the amount of sound entering them or would this bring you other problems such as bleed that you don't want or a different tone than you're looking for?

Can you get the drummer to play a bit more quietly? I know, I know. That's like asking a horse to crap a bit less...

Just suggestions that may or may not be a different type of solution for this situation before you go spend money.

[drago]

That must be a ridiculously strong signal to be clipping pro tools with barely any amplification. Anyway, an easy (and free) solution would to run the signal through the "Trim" plug-in on Pro Tools before it gets recorded.

[fluxrecordingco]

I will try both of these suggestions, thank you, and I'm going to try and use the Recorderman technique. I keep you updated, when I get back from the shore on how everything works out!

Thank you again

LO
VE

Tom

[brandondrury]

Whenever I mic drums i have to turn down the knobs, controlling the input sound, all the almost all the way so my recording does'nt peak.

Your wording here is very important. Based on this sentence you state that you turn the preamps down ALMOST all the way down to avoid peaking.

If this is the case, you are still boosting a bit and therefore aren't clipping.

So what's the problem?

Drums are loud. Hot mics will send plenty of signal into a preamp. That won't change regardless of the budget. Some fancier preamps have pads, but not all of them. Some fancy mics have pads too, but not all of them.

Can you get the drummer to play a bit more quietly?

I wish drummers hit harder. Seriously.

Anyway, an easy (and free) solution would to run the signal through the "Trim" plug-in on Pro Tools before it gets recorded.

This would work if he is not clipping the preamp or AD converter. Of course, this isn't any different than pulling the volume faders down.

Brandon

[fluxrecordingco]

Hey man,
Sorry for the wording, I'm still kinda new, but I'm not sure if I am getting you, or maybe my lack of wording correctly is making you not get me.
Sorry 'bout that.

But here is a picture of what I have turned down almost all the way...
(input/gain knobs)

(Sorry if the picture is small, here is the page of it. http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2804/project1pi7.jpg or you'll probably be able to find it on this big picture
http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AE...-IO-top-lg.jpg)


In layman terms, these knobs are turned almost all the way down to 0. And they sometimes Clip (thats what I meant by Peak) even when they are near 0. And thats when someone at George's Music, a local music shop by me, told me that I should get a Preamp, so I can lessen the signal going into the input/gain knobs. Therefore making it not clip.


I'm sorry for any confusion or time I wasted with anyone.
Many thanks for reading!

LO
VE

Tom

[brandondrury]

There is no confusion. I knew what you meant. You said your preamp knobs on your audio interface are ALMOST all the way down and sometimes clip.

You didn't say what happens when the preamps are all the way down. Do you have clipping then?

The reason I ask this is most preamps don't knock signal down. They are amplifiers. They boost signal. You would need a pad for that. None of my high end pres have such a pad. There are inline pads, but they can get expensive.

Where are you clipping? In your preamp, converter, or in your recording software? The reason I ask is because some audio interfaces have settings for +10 or -4dB and switching from one to the other often dramatically reduces level.

Stock preamps in audio interfaces are not known for being easily overloaded. They are known for being a bit noisy if you have to crank them up too high.

Specifically what mics are you overloading with? I'm guessing these are condeners.

Brandon

[MetalDave]

This guy works at a music store right? If I worked at a music store I would tell you.... you need alot more than a pre amp. I don't work at a music store so I am going to ask you this... What is that a picture of? Is it a mixer or is it a picture of a mixer in your software? Usually there are sliders also. Where are they set? Next where is the audio interface volume level? not the outs but the recording ones? these can also be adjusted down. There is a point where if you keep turning things down, you will get no level at all. My point is, What is the problem with getting too much signal? actually I have never heard of such a thing. There is alot of places you can adjust volumes on any recording rig. I have ran live sound and had the board show peaks with the gain knobs all the way down. This is not really a problem. use the slider or if you are using direct outs use the mixer onboard your computer. Where do you have the eq set? this will cause the peak lights to blink also. try low cut if you don't have a -10db or -12db pad onboard. Just as long as you aren't getting the peaks on the recordings it should be fine.

[the.blode]

I don't get this.. It sounds like 'music shop guy' is telling you that preamps are actually de-amps (I are funny.) This isn't true.. Assuming you can only adjust the preamp input, then even a chain of a thousand preamps can only result in a signal as large as the one that went into the first - even if all the gains are set to unity (+0db.)

If you're using mics with a high output on drums, it's not uncommon to have to pull the preamp gain RIGHT down so that it doesn't clip. For example, a tracking session I did recently involved a drummer of the cymbal-bashing kind, my overheads gain stages were sitting at 0 and the peaks were STILL above 0db (I was using an analog desk, thankfully.)

the issue we're talking about is really common. drums are loud. This can actually be beneficial if it means that you have to apply minimal gain to the signal at your audio interface. BECAUSE, most audio interfaces feature preamps that are reasonably noisy and not necessarily pretty, so the less these preamps touch the signal, the cleaner it'll be. Don't hesitate to pull the gain stages all the way down, unless you are STILL clipping signals - in which case you need a pad or another alternative.

[ferguson66]

It doesn't really sound like a problem to me. I record a lot of drums and all of my trim knobs are zero or close to zero, especially on snare and overheads. My Presonus Digimax actually goes from -20 to +20 but I have never had to go into the negatives.

If you are at zero and still clipping then you will need to do something but if you can turn them to zero or just above without clipping, you are good to go. If you still clip at zero then move the mics further away. I'm sure there is a solution without having to spend more money.