Tricks for capturing dynamic vocals??

[Emma]

I'm struggling with recording levels/quality and was wondering whether there a way to have a static setting on the input, that will cope with a wide dynamic range?

My vocals flucutate (ha! don't you love that word?) and when I get the input set up just right for a soft intimate vocal, it just won't work for the loud bits. I've tried the old turn-your-head-away or stand-back-a-bit tricks for the louder parts but I'm finding that singing loud with my Rode Nt1a, sounds thin and a bit harsh. The further back I step, the more hollow the sound. It really feels like I need an engineer to just adjust the volume input as the volume increases. As I don't have one when I'm in 'singer mode', I wondered what tricks other people use? I've tried patching a soft and loud version of the song together but I can still hear quite a difference in tonal quality.

[Rockerdude]

Well........ you DO have a new mic coming soon

Sometimes I will compress on the way in. HP at 80hz, comp threshold -5db, Ratio 4:1, GR at - 3db to -5db on the meter, faster attack and release. This is a pretty safe setting that will tame and smooth. Try compression on the way in.

[bozmillar]

you can always adjust the volume after the fact. a guy adjusting the preamp level going in isn't much different than you adjusting the fader level after it's captured. In 24 bits, you have an insane amount of dynamic range to work with. Might as well use it.

[Emma]

Thanks Rd.. haven't tried this before, am guessing it's done via sidechain?
Will have a play around - but am thinking that by essentially limiting the input it may take out some of the tastier transients..
I would really like a magical microphone that just does what I tell it to... but in the meantime, out with the manual

[sean1]

hey there emma, what boz is saying makes sence. automation after the fact might get you there. but if you want something in real time this looks pretty cool.

[Emma]

you can always adjust the volume after the fact. a guy adjusting the preamp level going in isn't much different than you adjusting the fader level after it's captured..

Thanks Boz but I've not managed to sort it with the faders. In the loud bits they are simply toooo loud if I'm not careful and they just don't sound nice.. they are stretched with no tonal depth or sort of hollow and flat in stark contrast to the depth of the quiet bits. I've tried all sorts of tricks to mend them but nothing has worked. It's more okay if I pack on a bunch of instrumentation and stuff but if I want a largely acoustic sound, there is nowhere to hide..

[Emma]

if you want something in real time this looks pretty cool.

Thanks sean... I saw that gizmo the other day when I was checking out waves stuff and wondered if they were any good.

[sean1]

you're welcome. you could always check out the demo and see if you fall in love with it. i just noticed the price though. at $225 that love might be in vain.

[Stan_Halen]

Yeah Vocal Rider is supposed to be very helpful. Some months you can find it on sale, but right now they want $225 for it. Assuming you have the patience you could draw the automation yourself.

Emma, have you thought about recording your vocal parts in sections rather than a single pass? Record the quiet parts with one setup on the pre, and the louder ones with another setup. That way you should have more control over everything.

[Emma]

Assuming you have the patience you could draw the automation yourself.
Emma, have you thought about recording your vocal parts in sections rather than a single pass? Record the quiet parts with one setup on the pre, and the louder ones with another setup. That way you should have more control over everything.

Hi Stan,
I'm a compulsive automator - but no joy with the loud bits - they just don't sound okay - whatever I do to them. I'm currently trying to patch in segments to replace the not-so-good bits but I really love getting in the zone and getting straight takes wherever possible.. It just makes the whole thing so much easier and has that 'gleam' that patched bits can miss out on. I'm just sort of obsessing over this

[Emma]

Ive been doing some reading and turns out there are quite a few tricks I need to play with before outlaying any hard cash
e.g. Cubase: DIY Vocal Rider | Audio & Project Files
Hooray for the internet!!
I'll let you know how I get on

[Stan_Halen]

Per your comment about going "straight through" on the performance ... another idea. Same thing using the different settings, but instead of recording "parts" one at a time, use the one setting for a straight-through performance, and another setting for a duplicate performance. Make sure the 1st setting captures your quiet voice the best, the 2nd setting the stronger vocals. Then you can edit (comp) the vocals together from natural performances.

[fHumble fHingaz]

The issue sounds like it could be a combination of your movement to compensate for the volume changes negatively affecting the vocal tone/timbre captured, as well as perhaps the natural changes in tone/timbre between "voices" revealing a less desireable match with your mic choice.

Here's what I'd suggest:

Experiment & try to find a set distance from the mic where your soft & loud "voices" sound good. (May be somewhat of a compromise). Next, set your mic pre input to where you are not clipping when you sing at your loudest. This will means your soft voice will have be have be captured at quite a low level, but as Boz says, a 24 bit system should have no problem with this. The signal to noise ratio is a different matter, so keeping the ambient/background noise low is critical.

Obviously, with this approach, volume automation is critical; However, eq automation will be just as necessary to maintain a consistent tone across your different "voices".

Another thought: Your room could be adding to your problems when your voice goes louder, room reflections may be messing with your sound. If you haven't already investing in a Reflexion filter or similar device, I'd suggest checking one out.... & try these tips from Sound On Sound: Q: How do I set up acoustic treatment for recording vocals?
SE Electronics Reflexion Filter

[Emma]

Your room could be adding to your problems when your voice goes louder

Ahhhh... you have got me wondering about the reflection issue now.. When I sing loud, it can be like REALLY loud (lightbulb lights up)..

Experiment time...

[garageband]

I'm a compulsive automator - but no joy with the loud bits - they just don't sound okay - whatever I do to them.

You'll need to check into a 12-step program for this.

I'm guessing two things. You're not running over them hard enough. It's gotta be a little weird when you have to make you sound like Not You. You might have to listen with a squint so you can't get lost in the music. You're listening to sound, not music. Make it fit like would if it was someone else singing their song.

The other has to do with your confidence as a musician. Your loud parts are fine. I'm sure of it. Let it be good... or at least good enough.

Lastly, if the loud parts are really loud, use mic technique. Sometimes... no wait, every time... I'll instruct the singer on which words/syllables are problematic. I make them learn those moves as part of getting the part right.