Suggestions on how to start mixing

[357mag]

Once I get done recording my guitar, I'll record the bass and then add the drums by way of Addictive Drums.

Then I guess I'll be ready for the mixing stage...

Seems from what I've read a good approach is to start with the kick drum and get that at a good level. Then add the snare and get that so it sounds good with the kick. Then add the rest of the drums and cymbals? I've heard this term "overheads", but I don't know what is meant by an "overhead".

One person suggested doing all the drums as a group. Then adding the bass. Maybe adding the electric guitar last?

I'm doing all this on my computer using Reaper as my DAW.

[Chinthaka]

like to advice you "dnt mix ue song following some one" (1st drum and 2nd bass that is standard) think abt what u want maka da drum sound best as u want add some ambi reverb
then bass track and.... normally finally strings

[Chinthaka]

as a composer dont be a slave of standard

[brandondrury]

Once I get done recording my guitar, I'll record the bass and then add the drums by way of Addictive Drums.

How do you get the groove of the guitar right when you record it before the drums? I always lay down a scratch track of the riff first, then program my drums, and then go back and really track my guitars over the drums. This is infinitely better for me.

Seems from what I've read a good approach is to start with the kick drum and get that at a good level. Then add the snare and get that so it sounds good with the kick. Then add the rest of the drums and cymbals? I've heard this term "overheads", but I don't know what is meant by an "overhead".

The conventional method of recording drums uses a bunch of close mics (kick, snare, and toms) and then uses generally a pair of mics in stereo to capture the overall kit). There are called overheads.

I go into great detail of the mixing process in my upcoming home recording book.

There are no rules with this mixing stuff. I always start with the entire drum bus (all 10 or so mics) playing. I listen for what I like and what I don't like. I get those hitting the stereo bus at -10dB. I then listen to the entire mix (all tracks) and then go from there. I don't every get too excited by solo'd tracks because the solo'd sound is irrelevant.

One person suggested doing all the drums as a group. Then adding the bass. Maybe adding the electric guitar last?

Are you talking about tracking or mixing?

as a composer dont be a slave of standard

I agree with this. Emulation is the first step towards non-creativity.

[357mag]

Mixing I presume. Since I'm a guitarist, I'm gonna wanna lay down the guitar track first. The guitar is the focal point of the song. Drums and bass are in supporting roles.

I will be adding drums by way of Addictive Drums.

[brandondrury]

Since I'm a guitarist, I'm gonna wanna lay down the guitar track first. The guitar is the focal point of the song. Drums and bass are in supporting roles.

I'm a guitar player so I know what you are attempting here, but I'm telling you playing a guitar over a click track is nowhere near the same as playing a guitar over well played / well programmed drums.

In most pop music the vocal is the focal point, but it would be insane to track vocals first. Generally speaking (for whatever reason) the focal point is almost always recorded last.

Brandon

[sparqee]

I'll probably get slapped for this, but.... a couple of posts up I read "Emulation is the first step towards non-creativity" then further down I read skepticism of recording guitar before drums which I thinks counts as a creative alternative to "the norm". Sure it can be difficult to get the groove that is typically created by playing to a drum track but for that very reason you're likely to end up with a different feel from the norm. I've actually done this (overdubbed drums to an existing guitar track) and I found it to be a refreshing change from how I normally work. I enjoyed it.

- Sparqee

[brandondrury]

a couple of posts up I read "Emulation is the first step towards non-creativity" then further down I read skepticism of recording guitar before drums which I thinks counts as a creative alternative to "the norm".

Well, it's not the same thing and I'll explain it to you.

You are implying that ANY "rule" or preformed method of doing things is going to limit your creativity. I could play along. I could say "Make an album without electricity. Don't be held back by the electron flow inhibitor creativity".

Obviously there aren't are too many recording devices out there that don't involve electron flow these days. It's just ridiculous to consider it. So I guess it's safe to say that rule #1 is "Electricity required".

Now, music is never going to be as black and white as my electricity analogy. However, there are still a handful of criteria for making a kick ass recording. One of those criteria is groove. There is no groove to a guitar with a click track. That's called a "scratch track" in my world. If you want to ignore the groove element in music, that's your business. Maybe you'll come up with something unique. I've heard what scratch tracks sound like mixed with even programmed drums. It's not a sound I've ever considered to be pleasing.

I think you should try it your way and then try it my way and then decide for yourself.

Read this blog:
MIDI Drum Sample Programming: Perfection Doesn't Work

The title doesn't fit what we are talking about here, but one of the core themes does. In the link to the mp3 example the dude clearly did not have this drum and guitars grooving. His guitars did not take into account his drums and vice versa. The end result was unacceptably bad on an otherwise good sounding recording.

A huge part of the recording process is understanding that all tracks add up to be one song / mix. It's a "team" effort I guess you could say and I've never heard it sound like a team with drums tracked after the guitars.

Out of curiosity, why are you so big on tracking the guitar first? Just curious.

Brandon

[sparqee]

I believe it is Chopin who is credited with the quote "give me limits so that I may create", meaning that the existence of a "framework" can free the creative mind. Having a defined playground leads to imaginative games that make use of the immediate environment (i.e. the framework). I would associate this point of view with the practice of recording drum tracks first. Having that groove defines your playground. It's an excellent approach which is why it it so often times employed in recording. Get ready for my hard left turn.....

Now a days we often praise "thinking outside the box". With so many people in the world, and many/most of them following the proven and accepted path to success it is *creativity* which make the individual shine. The creative artist stands out in the crowd. There are endless forms of creativity to discover inside the playground but let us not forget the vast uncharted regions "outside the box". A truly inspired solo guitar track may with it's many notes and phrasing imply an entire arrangement. It is the creative artist that hears "in to" that single guitar track, hearing the drums, the bass, perhaps the vocals. It's all in there just waiting to be made audible. Maybe... <shrug> Or, using that original track as the guide for the drums and then re-recording the guitar might be a great approach but then again, is that original inspiration still there, or was it lost in the overdub? Try it. Find out. If the inspiration is lessoned then toss out everything but that magic take and try it from a different direction. My wife sometimes picks out her jewelry first and then puts together her outfit around that (believe me it's fun to watch).

By the way Brandon, I applaud your idea of recording without electricity. I also applauded the idea back in 1996 with the band "They Might Be Giants" used a gramophone to record a song, you guessed it, without the use of electricity. Now your idea of recording an entire album without electricity... that *is* bold!

- Sparqee

[357mag]

How do I go about putting the drums in first? Do I just pick my beats and rhythms and place them in while keeping in mind that they have to fit the guitar part at this section of the song? That's what I would have to do I guess if I put the drums in first.