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  1. #1
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    Default Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    does pro tools sound a little better? im used to work with cubase, but somehow im not satisfied with the sound. yesterday i tried a new soft, adobe audition and i recorded a acoustic guitar track and a voice track. i also recorded the same track with cubase and pro tools. and i felt somehow cubase sound quality is not that good, comparing with adobe audition and pro tools, though these two seemed a bit complicated.
    i need some pro advice on which of these software shud i use and whats ur personal opinion?

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    well mate, i can tell you about adobe audition, it's not that dificult, eventhoug i thinks its easier than pro-tools and it have all the tools you need to record, mix and master, so, i think if you give it a time, you'll learn how to use it and realize that is not complicated at all, i'm not a pro but this is my opinion.

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Are you using the same hardware? What hardware are you using with your ProTools set up?

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Can you post sound clips?
    If this post is really short and has bad grammar, I probably posted it from my cell phone. So gimme a break.

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    These recording programs don't have anything to do with sound. They only deal with data - binary numbers. If you record and playback with the same hardware and use equivalent settings, you will get the same sound from any recording software. If you got something different then all other things weren't equal. Binary numbers don't have a sound, trust me. The sound differences come from modifying the data and then converting it back to analog audio. No modification, no difference.

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    With all things being equal, I'd be ROBO ROBO SHOCKED if there was any difference at all in various programs.

    When I mastered with Eric Conn he told me that most of their best sounding projects were tracked in Steinberg software. That really just reflects the enormous intellect and ability of people who chose Steinberg more so than the actual gear itself. (I'm kidding. I don't wany any assholes making that out to be anything more than it is.)

    Brandon

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    Lightbulb Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Originally Posted by fmw
    These recording programs don't have anything to do with sound. They only deal with data - binary numbers. If you record and playback with the same hardware and use equivalent settings, you will get the same sound from any recording software.
    I agree. If someone is not happy with the sound of their productions the cause is never the tools. It's always the skill of the operator, and of course the sound of the room you record and mix in.

    --Ethan

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Yeah the software does not change the dry signal, some programs will take less memory to run making the chance of breakup less; but it will not change the dry sound.

    Yes I have found that it is much easier to make better sounding recordings all together in Pro-Tools (ME), Adobe Audition, and Cubase Studio compared to the stuff I've done in Cubase LE, but this is the simple fact that all of these programs have presets to process your audio and have higher end VSTs.

    I personally record dry signals in LE then export to Adobe Soundbooth, and then I export out to Cubase Studio for post production. This allows me to have the simplest lossless recording, the best noise reduction, and then finally the best VST host. I would do all of the work in Studio 4 however my current hardware has a tendency to drop out and crash during recording.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    There are actually quite a few factors in the engine of the software during the mixdown process that do things a bit different. In Cubase I had a problem with some of the audio summing law during mixdown to audio file. I actually do believe that some of these DAWs sound different when producing a mix, that is why a lot of the big name guys are actually mixing outside of the box with expensive summing amps.
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Originally Posted by kapalik
    and i felt somehow cubase sound quality is not that good, comparing with adobe audition and pro tools
    Can you post sound clips of all 3 programs?

    Originally Posted by adorian
    In Cubase I had a problem with some of the audio summing law during mixdown to audio file.
    What hardware/software did you use to fix the problem? Can you post before/after sound clips?

    Originally Posted by adorian
    that is why a lot of the big name guys are actually mixing outside of the box with expensive summing amps.
    Check this out
    If this post is really short and has bad grammar, I probably posted it from my cell phone. So gimme a break.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Originally Posted by adorian
    There are actually quite a few factors in the engine of the software during the mixdown process that do things a bit different. In Cubase I had a problem with some of the audio summing law during mixdown to audio file. I actually do believe that some of these DAWs sound different when producing a mix, that is why a lot of the big name guys are actually mixing outside of the box with expensive summing amps.

    What you are saying is that the different programs have different algorithms to get the job done. That results in different data in the end product assuming the same kind of input from the user. To get the same end product each program would likely require different processing. That doesn't say anything about a DAW having a sound. They don't have a sound. They manipulate data. They could well manipulate it differently, not better or worse.

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    In Cubase I had a problem with some of the audio summing law during mixdown to audio file.
    The panning laws come into play anytime you hit play as well. If the mix you heard after rendering wasn't the exact thing you heard when hitting play, there was a problem of some kind.

    I actually do believe that some of these DAWs sound different when producing a mix, that is why a lot of the big name guys are actually mixing outside of the box with expensive summing amps.
    The use of analog summing doesn't really illustrate there any DAW sound different from another DAW. It illustrates that analog summing sounds different than pretty much all DAWs. If one clearly sounded better there would be people who took the middle ground who couldn't afford analog summing but went with X software as the next best alternative.

    In 7.5 years of doing this, no one has come up with a "clearly" better summing algorithm.

    Brandon

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    John, in my case it was basically the fact that the file I was rendering sounded a bit different compared to what I was listening to in Cubase. I had to adjust the summing MLaw or some crap like that in the software.

    I can also honestly say that in the studio I've done transfers of Pro Tools 6 via the digital mixer to an audio file recorded back into the machine and those usually sound better, or to say precisely what I am hearing in the monitors, compared to the internally mixed audio by Pro Tools which doesn't always sound that way.

    We need to keep in mind that each one of these applications has its own rendering/internal mixing algorithm so there is process that you're really not familiar to you before your audio turns into say a stereo .wav file at the end. From what I've read on this issue some apps use 32bit floating points, some 64bit or 24bit rendering engines and it is really different per application.

    In my case I am mainly bouncing my final mixes in real time unless I am just creating mp3 file or something quick on the go.
    Last edited by adorian; 10-08-2008 at 01:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Originally Posted by brandondrury
    If one clearly sounded better there would be people who took the middle ground who couldn't afford analog summing but went with X software as the next best alternative.

    In 7.5 years of doing this, no one has come up with a "clearly" better summing algorithm.

    Brandon
    There are actually quite a few producers/engineers that mention in interviews that Nuendo or Logic sounded better to them than Pro Tools, so yes, there are. Can't quote them right away but I remember reading quite a few interviews over the years, especially from European engineers.
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Yeah, I've heard this too, but until it's the consensus, it's of limited benefit to debate it. At least that's how I feel.

    Brandon

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Originally Posted by brandondrury
    Yeah, I've heard this too, but until it's the consensus, it's of limited benefit to debate it. At least that's how I feel.

    Brandon
    well, actually in the Mixing Engineer book there was a quote from Digidesign head honcho too that they addressed some of these engineer's concerns in PT version 7. Most pro engineers mix outside the box so why shouldn't we discuss it? Lets hear some opinions here.

    Brandon - do you hear the difference and have you done the tests?

    I've done the tests and I do hear the difference, at least as far as Pro Tools 6 is concerned.
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    well, actually in the Mixing Engineer book there was a quote from Digidesign head honcho too that they addressed some of these engineer's concerns in PT version 7. Most pro engineers mix outside the box so why shouldn't we discuss it?
    There is no reason we shouldn't discuss it as long as its importance is kept in context.

    I feel I can do anything in Cubase that I want to musically. I'm not exactly married to Cubase but the cash I've invested and the time I've invested to become proficient at it does make Cubase and I"engaged". For me to wonder if I some other guy's fiance screws 0.5% better than mine does little more than detracks from my own relationship. In other words, I think putting an excessive amount of energy into details this small can actually get in the way of the music making (assuming we are dealing with limited resources). If I was recording Eric Clapton every day, I would definitely do these kinds of shootouts just to give me something to do.

    I feel the weakest link in the chain is always the music or me. It's certainly not the tools. So X software would have to be OBVIOUSLY better for me to switch. If I knew that each and every recording I made benefited by an obvious amount, I'd dump a shit load of cash into it.

    For me, I need to hear some audio files that can REALLY convince me.

    So does anyone have any clips comparing the algorithm in Pro Tools with other programs? I'd love to hear them. I guess I could get something like this organized with all the members here. That would be fun.

    It would illustrate if this is an issue I should concern myself with or not.

    Brandon

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    Sound on Sound magazine has actually quite a few articles on this. At first I was skeptical as well until I discovered the same problem in Pro Tools 6 when working on a commercial album. Really strange as mixing via the digital board (02R at 48/24) sounded exactly as the mix I was hearing as opposed to the Pro Tools mix that had the bass running away and some kind of smearing on the high end.

    After I mentioned it to "the Boss" aka studio head honcho he was surprised that actually I've been mixing in the box as he was doing exactly what I mentioned for as long as he 's been in the biz.

    As I had plenty of studio time to blow I went back and did get the mix sounding the same as I got a bit more precise on my compression and eq's. It is possible that it was a plugin, possibly it was a gain structure issue since all the playback is via the mixing board which is interface digitally via ADAT link into Pro Tools.

    This made me want to look at my home system which also started exhibiting some of these issues earlier and I demonstrated them to a few buddies and they agreed on it as well - the rendered mix didn't sound the same as the one that was recorded back into the workstation.

    I'll see if I've still kept these mix files - I'll post them for you to check out.
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    I use Adobe audition 2.0, and 3.0. I have sonar 7, and cubeLe4. All I have ever realy used is adobe, but its about all I know. Sometimes I can get a good sound, and others I cant. I feel it is all in the Mics, mic placement, final EQ, and personal taste. I fight with it everyday tryen to get our CD done. It is a true pain. Ild love for someone to take over the mix, after I stop the recording. Anyone up for that one?!!

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    I feel it is all in the Mics, mic placement, final EQ, and personal taste.
    Yeah, I'm with you.

    It's not that I'm against perfecting every link in the chain. It's that I'm so concerned about getting the most exciting performances and getting the instruments to sound right for the song that some of this stuff like sample rates, bit depth, or software brand seems mega insignificant.

    Lately, I've been WAY too busy fighting my audio engineering war to sweat the tiny stuff.

    Brandon

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    Default Re: Sound issue: cubase vs adobe audition vs pro tools

    In regards to Audition, I am a guitar player and song writer and have been using Adobe Audition 3 for quite some time. I had purchased a Lexicon Omega to record with but I find it very unstable as it keeps dropping the drivers and thus the sound source when recording.
    I was wondering what suggestions some of you might have in regards to a recording device as I still would like to continue to use Audition and not necessarily transition to MBox and Pro Tools. The reason being is that I haven't read anywhere if the Mbox will operate with Audition nor have I come across suggestions on what kind of recorder works best with Audition on a XP 2 based PC.

    PS I also don't want to spend more than $400.


    Thanks so much for your advice, I appreciate it.
    Cheers, Tony

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