Small room, live performance - to close mic or not?

[slowman]

Hi folks

I have to record a small group comprising of 3 or 4 people playing:

1. Fiddle
2. Accordian
3. Percussion - Cahon/bongo/shakers
4. Mandolin/Guitar

My recording room is about 11ft x 11ft (3.5m x 3.5m) - it sounds ok, it is part treated with acoustic panels on walls and ceiling (50mm acoustic mineral wool in frames) and laminate floor with rugs I can move around.

I have max 8 channels to record with

Mics available are:

1 x Rode NT2000 (LDC)
6 x AKG Perception 150 (SDC)
2 x AKG C1000 (SDC)
2 x AKG D50 (DYN)
1 x Sure SM57 (DYN)

I tend to track stuff usually, but these folk want to perform live. So I am wondering, given the small space if it is worth trying to:

1. Close-mic them
2. Close-mic and ambient mic
3. Set up a stereo pair somewhere in the room and just rely on that

I'd be really interested to know how those with relevant experience would approach it given the limitations?

RE the Mics: The 150s are clear and open sounding, and pretty good at rejecting sounds from behind for cardioid condensers. The NT2000 has a variable pattern from cardioid to omni to figure 8. The D50s are vocal mics primarily but sound sweeter and more detailed than SM58s to my ear.

[newkid]

Originally Posted by slowman

Hi folks

I have to record a small group comprising of 3 or 4 people playing:

1. Fiddle
2. Accordian
3. Percussion - Cahon/bongo/shakers
4. Mandolin/Guitar

My recording room is about 11ft x 11ft (3.5m x 3.5m) - it sounds ok, it is part treated with acoustic panels on walls and ceiling (50mm acoustic mineral wool in frames) and laminate floor with rugs I can move around.

I have max 8 channels to record with

Mics available are:

1 x Rode NT2000 (LDC)
6 x AKG Perception 150 (SDC)
2 x AKG C1000 (SDC)
2 x AKG D50 (DYN)
1 x Sure SM57 (DYN)

I tend to track stuff usually, but these folk want to perform live. So I am wondering, given the small space if it is worth trying to:

1. Close-mic them
2. Close-mic and ambient mic
3. Set up a stereo pair somewhere in the room and just rely on that

I'd be really interested to know how those with relevant experience would approach it given the limitations?

RE the Mics: The 150s are clear and open sounding, and pretty good at rejecting sounds from behind for cardioid condensers. The NT2000 has a variable pattern from cardioid to omni to figure 8. The D50s are vocal mics primarily but sound sweeter and more detailed than SM58s to my ear.

Personally, and many here will disagree, I prefer to do live recording in stereo. With perhaps one fill mike for soloists or to fill the whole in the middle.

I would start with an xy pair about 3-5 feet from the group who would be near a corner and turned to aim off center at the back end of the side wall but not into the opposite corner. The mikes should aim at the 1/3 points from either side of the group.

Put the loudest in the back and line up the other three in front.
If the mandolin is too soft make it a diamond shape with 1-2-1 spacing.

You might still need to hang curtains or a blanket if the reflections are coming around too strong.

Adjust as necessary. Could use fill mike if one is really low.
Avoid facing the opposite wall and having reflections coming back full strength unless you separately close mike everybody.

[slowman]

ok, thanks for your thoughts, it's always useful to get ideas and opinions from other people - it's a one-time non-repeatable session with a limited time-slot so I need to hit the ground running as much as possible and won't have a lot of time to try things out (much as I would like to ideally) - so it's just useful to have a few perspectives on it, thanks

[brandondrury]

I, too, like the stereo method for this sort of thing as long as it gets the sounds you are looking for. Sometimes close mic trickery is required, but a bad like this generally prefers the natural sound and X/Y may get you 90% of the way there...maybe more.

It never hurts to have a few close mic backups that you BARELY use hear and there when needed at mix time.

Brandon

[venuestudio]

I certainly would mic it with a stereo pair (I would try a jecklin disk, the separation might be helpful and you still retain the low end to both mics) but I would also absolutely mic the individual instruments. I would guess that the high end shimmer of the shakers are going to be lost in the room with an accordian for instance. I will always put up at least a mic for each instrument. As Brandon already pointed out, you don't have to use them but you will kick yourself if you needed them and did not put them up.

[fsiplas]

Originally Posted by venuestudio

I will always put up at least a mic for each instrument. As Brandon already pointed out, you don't have to use them but you will kick yourself if you needed them and did not put them up.

+2. If you have the available tracks, use them. They don't have to be in your final mix, but it's definitely better to have them and not need them.

[P.P.T.]

Wel, if the room is a possible problem I would close mic.

If it is a one time deal I would close mic AND use the x pattern stereo system.
Why not do both and use what works best when you sit down to do the mix?

[brandondrury]

Why not do both

The name of the game!

Brandon