Recording Drums: Recorderman or Glynn Johns technique??

[Chadfish]

And here's "Recorderman" which uses 2 mics, and both keep the same distance from the snare, and same distance from the kick. Not to say that the snare and kick are the same distance from the mic, but mic one's distance from the snare is the same as mic two, and mic one's distance from the kick is the same as mic two.

[Chadfish]

And here is part 2 of the isosceles guy's video, showing more room mics:

I think he must have a legitimate reason for his measurements.

[bozmillar]

actually, this guy claims to be doing the same mic setup. His recording sounds worlds better to me.

YouTube - Glyn Johns recording technique

[Chadfish]

Can you try that link again boz? Just hit the link button, 2nd from the right, above the text box, and paste in the youtube URL.

[dom8154]

And here's "Recorderman" which uses 2 mics, and both keep the same distance from the snare, and same distance from the kick. Not to say that the snare and kick are the same distance from the mic, but mic one's distance from the snare is the same as mic two, and mic one's distance from the kick is the same as mic two.

You could probably benefit of the third mic placement, (kick mic)
but the 'Recordeman' technique is based on the overhead placement.

The 'Recordeman' setup gives you a very detailed sound due to the phase coherence of the 2 OH mics.
The rest are only close mics (snare/kick/toms) that can be brought in to add some depth.
With the 2 OH panned correctly you should notice a strong centered kick.

Anyway, even Recorderman's setup is a derivate of Glyn John's technique...

Regards,

-Dom

[bozmillar]

Can you try that link again boz? Just hit the link button, 2nd from the right, above the text box, and paste in the youtube URL.

sorry, I tried embedding it, but it doesn't seem to be working. I posted a link.

I't possible he had close mics in that video. I didn't watch the whole lead up talking part.

[Sessions Recording]

Chad, I think the refrence to Isosceles Triangle is the position of the 3rd condencer Mic in front ot the kick. As a youth I learned this set up from Jack Adams @ Criteria Recording Studios MIAMI in the late 70's. Jack Adams was a sometimes assistant engineer on Glyn Johns projects in the late 60's early 70's. I think this origional set up did not include any close mic's. The video was origionally for a friendly "how to" competition amonge some friends. I left it up because it wasnt to bad? Thanks for checking it out.

Jesse Miller
Sessions Recording
Key Largo FL Keys
sessionrecording@aol.com

[Chadfish]

Here's what the guy in my forst Glyn John's video said about his method (I wrote him and asked!):

Chad, I think the reference to Isosceles Triangle is the position of the 3rd condenser Mic in front of the kick. As a youth I learned this set up from Jack Adams @ Criteria Recording Studios MIAMI in the late 70's. Jack Adams was a sometimes assistant engineer on Glyn Johns projects in the late 60's early 70's. I think this original set up did not include any close mics. The video was originally for a friendly "how to" competition among some friends. I left it up because it wasn't too bad? Thanks for checking it out.

Jesse Miller
Sessions Recording
Key Largo FL Keys
sessionrecording@aol.com

[Chadfish]

Oh you already posted Jesse! Thanks.

[Sessions Recording]

The location of the 3rd Mic using the measurement from the distance between the first 2 mics assures that the distance to the snare is greater or less than than for the kick, not the same. If they were the same distance from the snare that would be an equilateral triangle. Isosceles and Equilateral Triangles Remember,this is just a STARTING POINT of refrence. Use you ears or phase meters to adjust. The point is that the kick "mic" was further away than you would think back in the day. Today you could as easilly just use a close mic on the kick.

[ivan.lt]

Thanks for posting and explaining, the reason for measuring BETWEEN the 1st and 2nd mics is still obscure to me. Basically you're saying any distance for the 3rd (kick) mic will do? Sorry if we're giving this point too much attention.

[bozmillar]

The location of the 3rd Mic using the measurement from the distance between the first 2 mics assures that the distance to the snare is greater than for the kick, not the same. If they were the same distance from the snare that would be an equilateral triangle. Isosceles and Equilateral Triangles

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to be a knowitall or anything. I just know that phase issues are one of those things that doesn't click with a lot of people when they start out recording. I also know that it is much harder to grasp a concept when misinformation is presented. And even more importantly, I learn a lot more about a subject when I debate nitty gritty (and often times seemingly irrelevant) details. So with that said, measuring the distance between mic1 and mic2 and setting the distance of mic3 from the snare to be that doesn't make an isosceles triangle and I don't see how setting this measurement will be any better than eyeballing it.

Remember,this is just a STARTING POINT of refrence. Use you ears or phase meters to adjust. The point is that the kick "mic" was further away than you would think back in the day. Today you could as easilly just use a close mic on the kick.

Thanks for the clarification. Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to understand the measurements.

[Sessions Recording]

Yeah..No problem ivan.lt....I to can only guess why the distance between mic 1 and mic 2 measurement was important....It was taught to me that way..The video was a quickie among friends. BTW....The Jon Bohnham distance between snare and mic 1 was 44", that is not in the video...44" is a great starting point for Mic's 1 and 2....ALL bets are off on Mic 3....Thanks for asking, Glad to post back. Nice place you all have here...Might lurke around a bit.

[Sessions Recording]

@bozmiller....No problem man, I am a Miller to. Jesse Miller, maybe we are related......The Isosceles triangle in my example is looking down from a ceiling view. Mics 1 and 2 equals one side . Mics 1 and 3 side is the same as mic 2 and 3 side. An Isosceles traiangle has 2 equal sides. The distance to the snare for mic 3, i will admit, was overstated. Really does not matter, as long as it is NOT the same as Mics 1 and 2 distance to the snare. That would make the snare to present in the "kick" (3) mic.

[bozmillar]

Mics 1 and 3 side is the same as mic 2 and 3 side.

That's the part that's not true. Since you are measuring the distance from the snare only, the distance from mic1 to mic3 is not the same as the distance from mic2 to mic3 unless you happened to by chance put mic3 in a spot that makes it so, but that measurement does not make it so. It is also possible that the distance between mic1 and mic2 are the same as the distance between mic1 and the snare. This depends on how high you place mic2. In this situation, the mic3 could very well be the same distance from the snare as mic1 and mic2.

The distance to the snare for mic 3, i will admit, was overstated. Really does not matter, as long as it is NOT the same as Mics 1 and 2 distance to the snare. That would make the snare to present in the "kick" (3) mic.

Thanks for the clarification. This makes complete sense to me.