Really odd mic position NAILED IT!

[123weasleface]

Ok so I was messing around with mic postions trying to find the right one for the song.

I'm talking about recording an acoustic guitar by the way.

First of all I'm using 2 mics (Sterling audio St66 and Shure SM7B)
I tried so many different combinations that any logical engineer might go through before he/she resorts to jurastic measures.(12th fret and room, sound hole, high room. blah blah)

So I probobly tried 12 different positions and they all sounded so muddy and unclear for the type of song this was.(rock/pop)
So I said screw it and threw away all that logic and knowledge out the window and got creative.

I put my Sterling Audio ST66 condensor about 2 feet ahead of the neck and at about 3 feet infront of the guitar facing in a parallel direction with the guitar. I then set my SM7B at a standard room position. The condensor sounded SUPERB but the SM7B was still lacking.

So I then placed the SM7B 2 feet ahead of the neck and about 8-10 feet infront of the guitar for a room sound and pointed it in the same direction as the Condensor (pointing parallel with the guitar) but this was supposed to be a room mic still.

And listened and it blew me away with how clear and define the sound was for this song. Now of course I've used my other position for different songs that hit it right on just like this but they were never as weird as this one.

So just a story to be very experimental when you can't seem to find that right tone. Share yours
Edit: Added the dry Guitar track

[m24p]

Sound clip, please! What type of room?

[123weasleface]

Sound clip, please! What type of room?

I'll upload a dry one when I get home. It's just a bedroom. Acoustics aren't too bad but it's not treated or anything.

[awesome]

I don't doubt it one bit. "professional" mic techniques are for "professional" environments and applications. Recording an acoustic guitar in a bedroom requires a more creative and intuitive approach and procedure and expierimentation is probably the most valueble tool in a situation like that. Spend five minutes trying a new mic position and save yourself an hour of mixing.

[123weasleface]

Here's the dry guitar tracks.

[m24p]

Nice! Thanks for posting.

[garww]

Ya, don't be afraid to dress your MICs as the need develops. You can hear what you don't want to hear and adjust it. This is from a fone interview Friday - sporting a nice Bolo tie.

[brandondrury]

1) I think it sounds GREAT! Awesome job.

2) I used a very similar mic placement recording a Martin D28 years ago. (Not sure where those audio files went.) Moving that mic so it was 2' fast the nut (essentially micing the guitar from the side) was the ticket.

So I said screw it and threw away all that logic and knowledge out the window and got creative.

Ruling out the issue of speed/time, all that "logic" and "knowledge" generally equates to NOT LISTENING.

"professional" mic techniques are for "professional" environments and applications.

I wonder how many "professionals" use typical mic placements. I'd imagine very few. (Maybe some.) The one huge thing that separates a pro from a new guy is the pro doesn't look surprised when a typical mic placement doesn't work. It's off to listening once again to find the spot that makes the instrument sing.

Great thread!

Brandon

[DanTheMan]

No matter where I put my mics, I never get a sound that I love(and I know a bit about acoustics). I've done mono and stereo things. I've actually stopped trying to get great tone. 80 I almost never place my mic the same way twice though. If I play long enough with a mic or 2 in whatever position, it starts to sound good to me... I almost honk I'm adjusting my playing style to the mic position(s).
The other option is that after a while, your playing just gets sweeter.
Dan

[garww]

Actually, Dan, I think that sweeter thing helps a lot : )

[damiano]

Man, that guitar sounds awesome! Congrats, you did a great job.
By the way, I really liked the song. I think it will soun cool if you then add some violins and cellos as back accompaniment. (MIDI of course, if you don't have real ones!)
I would love to hear more audio clips.
Damian

[Picksalot]

Very nice - made my ears happy. Good tune and playing.
Will definitely have to try out those mic positions.
Thanks for sharing.

[shadowsreach]

Wow very cool!

[Dahla]

That sounds GREAT! Man... I've recently only recorded my acoustic direct because I've been lazy (and it's just for ideas anyway) but I need to try my sm7 on it now.

[gruzina]

Sound great !
The guitar got all the brightness needed for a pop rock song , and also you feel the air at the top .. supper recording ....
I don't really hear the room mic (because of the blend probably) , but still great sound...
it would be nice if you could up load the room mic separately just for reference ....
tnx 4 sharing !

[acoustic]

this is a real good clip and you play nice I get were you are on this Inst and would even fit mod... blue grass but as a rule for the most part my likes are a touch more bottom end ---and on a acoustic guitar for me this was the hardest thing to get bottom end will bring out the rolls and slaps and give the whole thing the feel of being there in the room but some times i record thin and bright on some of my blue grass songs andlet the bass fill in the bottom end ? ----acoustic

[TheRecluse26]

I think even odder than the mic placement (which is odd, don't get me wrong) is the decision to use an SM7b as a room mic... it's got ridiculous off-axis rejection and need for proximity. Why did you decide to go with that for the distance mic?

[123weasleface]

I think even odder than the mic placement (which is odd, don't get me wrong) is the decision to use an SM7b as a room mic... it's got ridiculous off-axis rejection and need for proximity. Why did you decide to go with that for the distance mic?

Haha, yeah well I don't exactly have a large collection of mics :P

All I got is a Sterling Audio ST66 and a SM7B

So I make due with what I got. Any recommendations for a room mic?

[TheRecluse26]

So I make due with what I got. Any recommendations for a room mic?

In that budget range, I'd suggest maybe some sort of RODE tube condenser or something like the K2. Either that or get some sort of modded mic like something from Advanced Audio or Oktavamod.

[the evil]

I have a joe meek condenser that came with the twin q preamp when i bought it. It sounds really good on the room and i always just grab it for the room. I havent really tried it on other sources though. I think they can be had pretty cheap on ebay.

[Andrew Marino]

Thanks for posting and sharing your experience. GREAT sound! Nice spectrum of highs and lows.
What Guitar are you playing?

[gruzina]

I have a joe meek condenser that came with the twin q preamp when i bought it. It sounds really good on the room and i always just grab it for the room. I havent really tried it on other sources though. I think they can be had pretty cheap on ebay.

well I can say that Joemeek's mics are underrated IMO , I also own a ThreeQ and I got with it (4free) a JM47a (a U47 style mic) and they both really great compare to a much high price products in the market
I can say this mic beat down a lot of expensive microphones I worked with ...

[123weasleface]

Thanks for posting and sharing your experience. GREAT sound! Nice spectrum of highs and lows.
What Guitar are you playing?

I'm playing a Yamaha AC3M.

All solid Mahogany guitar. Has a gorgeous **** tone.
I also just posted a song using this track in the " Bash My Recording" section. Check out the final product :P

[ShiftingKevin]

Seriously, fantastic results even without mentioning the limited tools and environment! I'm still trying to wrap my head around the placement. When you say parallel with the guitar, do you mean parallel with the neck, pointed inward? How were you oriented in the room, out of curiousity?

I have some acoustics to track for an upcoming album and I'm going to purposely avoid any convention and predispositions and get whacky with my mic cabinet *coughgigbagcough* and just use my ears. I would really love to see how this setup sounds in my home studio, though, because I've often struggled with balancing detail with boominess. Like somebody else said, though, this spectrum balance is superb! Hell, this pretty much nails the balance that would sit best in these songs I'm putting together!

Thanks

[123weasleface]

Seriously, fantastic results even without mentioning the limited tools and environment! I'm still trying to wrap my head around the placement. When you say parallel with the guitar, do you mean parallel with the neck, pointed inward? How were you oriented in the room, out of curiousity?

I have some acoustics to track for an upcoming album and I'm going to purposely avoid any convention and predispositions and get whacky with my mic cabinet *coughgigbagcough* and just use my ears. I would really love to see how this setup sounds in my home studio, though, because I've often struggled with balancing detail with boominess. Like somebody else said, though, this spectrum balance is superb! Hell, this pretty much nails the balance that would sit best in these songs I'm putting together!

Thanks

The mics were not positioned so that they were facing the sound hole. What I did was turn them 90 degrees and put them both to the left of my head. The mics sitting in a line with the guitar head if you were directly behind the guitar head looking forward.

I made the mics so that they weren't pointed at the sounds hole but turned them 90 degrees counter clockwise pointing at the wall instead of the guitar.
First mic was about 1-2 feet from the head and the second mic was about 5-6 feet from the head.