Pre-amp question

[DogpitStudios]

I'm running two MXL 603s through an M-AUDIO audiobuddy pre (2 channels). The sound I tend to get when its completely unmixed is very thin. I don't think its the room because its a very large room and varios walls are built so that there are no parallels, but I don't have bass traps yet because I can't afford them, and I'm not quite eduacted enough about acoustics yet to spend my money. I'm thinking the sound I'm getting is a combination of the pre (which is pretty much complete crap) and the mic (which is a little better than decent in my opinion). By saturday I will have a new pair of condensers, the AKG C-1000s and soon after I'm gonna buy an M-AUDIO DMP3 pre (also two channels). I was wondering if anyone off hand can tell me what they think the problem in the chain is. My guess is that its the audiobuddy, because its only 50 bux and nobody has ever really said its that great. Don't get my wrong my incoming signal is not shit. I'm just trying to get my incoming signal to be amazing one step at a time.

Thanks guys,

Ben

[Ronan Chris Murphy]

I am going to guess its the audio buddy. Just do the math, if you pay 50 bucks for two pre amps, and an AD and DA converters. You are basically recording with $4 pre amps...

[TimRP]

Umm, the buddy doesn't have AD/DA converters, or did I miss something in your post.

[brandondrury]

You need to post some clips. "Thin" means different things to different people. I recorded a guy two weeks ago who considered an AT4050 through a Vintech 1272 to be thin (even when he was right up on the mic with lots of proximity effect).

Every MXL I've used has been very bright. Is this the thiness that you are talking about?

Brandon

[DogpitStudios]

Yes you could say bright kind of describes it. Some cases it even sounds tinny as if the room I recorded in is made out of alluminum. I also feel like there is a lack of bass coming from this, obviously they are condensers and I shouldn't really hope for this especially with mine, but I think lack of bass and brightness are the two main parts of the thin sound. I'll post a clip by tomorrow. Also the audio buddy is said to have a frequency response down to 5 Hz. I really don't believe that load of crap. Is it true?

Ben

[Ronan Chris Murphy]

Originally Posted by TimRP

Umm, the buddy doesn't have AD/DA converters, or did I miss something in your post.

Is Audio buddy just a pre amp? If its an interface it has to convert the audio to digital.

[DogpitStudios]

Its just a pre. I use my MOTU for A/D conversion

Ben

[TimRP]

Also the audio buddy is said to have a frequency response down to 5 Hz. I really don't believe that load of crap. Is it true?

Well it could be trure, just that it might be 15dB down at 5Hz compared to 1KHz.

I also wonder what it is doing above 1KHz, if there is a boost there, you may be having the problems you describe, maybe?

[brandondrury]

You may not like this post, but here goes. I could be wrong, but I'm going to go with my gut here.

I'm guessing if you plugged a 5 string bass into a DI into your rig, you'll get more low end that you could stand. I'm guessing that if you recorded directly out of a keyboard with a sine wave type of bass sound, you could get more low end than you would ever want. In fact, I typically put a high pass filter on just about everything I record with the exception of bass guitar and kick drum (for a typical rock band). So, I really doubt the problem is deep bass.

I've never used an M-Audio preamp, but I'd guess that any non-broken preamp would sound comparable to other preamps in it's class. The preamps in my Mackie are about as cheap as they come and I don't lose any sleep when I lose them. Take a look at my preamp shootout. When compared with the big boys, the Mackie does not that terrible. I find it to be quite usable in the right situation. Assuming that the M-audio preamps you are using are similar to the Mackies (or maybe even better for all I know), the blame must be cast further down the line.

I'll assume your cables aren't broken.

Next is your mic. You are using an MXL mic. As stated before, the MXL condensers I've used are all bright. One could consider this to be "thin".

Next is your source. You haven't stated what all you've recorded with your rig. If you've recorded 2 things, then it's a little early. When you've recorded 20 or 30 different guitars, drums, vocals, etc and you find that they are all thin, maybe that's a problem.

More than likely, the problem is you. No offense. I hope you don't take this personally. I think that people put way too much importance on their gear. I've ran out of expensive preamps on so many live band type of recordings and always seam to revert back to Mackie. It seams that I get more compliments on tracks recorded with my Mackie, but that may be just be me making a note of it in my head that I impressed a client with a Mackie preamp (even though the typical message board seams to suggest that it's not possible).

If your tracks are thin and nothing is broken, I'm guessing you are just putting the mic in the wrong place on the wrong source.

Am I wrong?

Brandon

[DogpitStudios]

Brandon,

You are might be right, and you might be wrong. I've recorded with the mxls as overheads with the audiobuddys as pres on about 5-6 kits so far. It isn't much but the chain does tend to sound bright in all ways. The first kit I did with these I wasn't used to them so I picked my own and tried about 14-15 different mic placements with just the overheads alone. No matter what It always sounded a bit to bright for my standards. I moved rooms after this and hoped to have this bright problem disapear since I was blaming it on the metal vents above the drums. The tinny sound changed for one, but they are still bright on every kit I have done. I realized the other day after the last drums I did that it really isn't a thin sound that describes it. There is just soo much Hi end on these that they have a peircing sound that Is a bit too in your face. They could be good for some stuff like micing a dull acoustic guitar for instance. I've miced the same acoustic guitar with these about 3 times with many different placements. this guitar is not the brightest sounding guitar, but I can get it to sound incredably out there with these mics which is why I like them. The other day I room miced with my KSM-27 and I have to say the sound was a lot more mellow on the drums with that. Maybe thats cause It was a room mic, but It seemed to roll off the higher frequencies in a good way to actually add a more mellow feeling to these drums. I've heard from other people that they get the same results with this mic. The reason why I brought up the pre was because I had a sort of feeling that the pre may be a bit bright sounding too. I am getting two AKG C-1000s (just ordered them from daddys they'll be here in 2 weeks). I was thinking maybe I should upgrade one of my pres too because they may sound a bit bright. I have 4 audiobuddys and I think some variation may be good anyway.

Ben