Overheads: X/Y vs. spaced pair

[bigjoe10p]

I've been experimenting with a few different overhead mic placement styles for recording drums lately, and since I'm on the never ending path of learning, I thought I'd try to find out your opinions on what works best. So far I've come to the conclusion that the X/Y pattern works best for me because I dont have to spend too much time measuring out from the snare, and worrying about phase issues.

A couple questions I have are:
1. Most of the literature I've read about overhead placement (especially spaced pair) say to place 2 mics equidistant from the center of the snare drum. The problem, or rather the question that i have is that the snare drum isn't usually placed in the center of the kit, so why place the overheads in accordance to where the snare is? If the snare is (from a right handed drummers perspective) to the left of the kick drum, and the mics are spaced equidistant from the center, wouldn't you encounter phase problems with cymbal hits?

2. There are a few ways to set up an X/Y pair. 90 degrees parallel, 90 degrees offset, parallel with the cymbals, raised and pointed towards the kit, etc.... From experience what overhead placement has worked best for you?


By the way, I'm using 2- C1000's, and if you're familiar with them the come with two sort of "caps" to put on the capsule to convert it to polar pattern, and also a "presence boost". Any suggestions on what to use for overhead drum micing?

[bigjoe10p]

Anybody? I'm surprised....

[thesilentdrummer]

Not too familiar with the topic, but as far as drum overheads spaced equidistant from the snare, snare is usually the center point of the drumset. I don't know too much about phasing issues though.

Shure Notes Issue #25 - Stereo Miking Techniques

I got this in my shure newsletter. Its all about different stereo mic setups. Maybe it will help you.

[brandondrury]

X/Y pattern works best for me because I dont have to spend too much time measuring out from the snare, and worrying about phase issues.

So did you win the race? What was your time? I bet if I put on my Nike's I could give you a run for the money.

You probably didn't realize it but you let out a HUGE clue about your subconscious mentality. You said you liked X/Y because it's faster and not because it sounds better. You may want to dwell on this a little bit.

snare drum isn't usually placed in the center of the kit, so why place the overheads in accordance to where the snare is?

Great question! I've asked this one before.

A snare is only off center if you think of the where there kick drum points as the front of the kit. For all practical purposes, the "center" of the kick drum in a typical mix is a line that goes through the center of the kick drum and through the center of the snare. Does that make sense?

Why do we do it this way? I guess because it sounds better. There is something that makes sense about keeping the kick and snare centered, but I have no honest answer for you. I've heard of guys slightly panning each one, but they are the minority.

There are a few ways to set up an X/Y pair.

Really? This is a new one. Besides, this what are the other methods?



I don't do drums at my place anymore, but when I did I wasn't huge on the X/Y thing. It tended to enhance the boxiness of my room. I found that going with a space pair was better for me. I would put one mic 2' feet behind the floor tom and put the other mic equadistant from the snare but much higher and closer to the cymbals. In other rooms I've recorded in this method was less effective.

Brandon

[.tom]

"the question that i have is that the snare drum isn't usually placed in the center of the kit, so why place the overheads in accordance to where the snare is?"

..cuz in a stereo field, the mics are processing the the snare hitz relative to time and also, the snare source's reflection pattern within the room -relative to eachother. the snare hit is as clear as it gets when the stereo mics are placed equal distance from the center of the snare drum and, the relative early reflections are in natural phase too -if it sounds good where its placed in the room then it will sound similar in the post. time slipping in the post will correct phase of the primary source but it will fuk up the phase of the reflections.. mics are not as descriminating as human ears.. get the snare snapping and you've got most of wut is good about rok


"snare drum isn't usually placed in the center of the kit, so why place the overheads in accordance to where the snare is?"

well, it's just about power.. like the power of a song as it plays. snare is just front and center like vocals. any panning would distract the mix. try thinking more about the soundstage of a band.. when the drummer does a solo you can get all crazy with panning shit but keep it front and center when the band is rokin out.


"There are a few ways to set up an X/Y pair. 90 degrees parallel, 90 degrees offset, parallel with the cymbals, raised and pointed towards the kit, etc.... From experience what overhead placement has worked best for you?"

ok, but u can vary the angle of x/y to as much as 120 degrees.


i really like spread mic capture. it sounds awesome. every kit is a nu design requiring different capture strategies... big kitz can benefit from a 3 mic ohed capture. generally, mics should be closest to the sides of the kit and not front or bak. they are aligned with the cymbals/tom toms -complimentary of the imaginary line from kik center to snare center, making placement a diagonal. sometimes miking from the line at the bak of the drummer is good too. it depends on the drummer's habits. one thing to consider is angle -pointing down as apposed to pointing across. depends on the mic pattern and desired effect. omni mics point across at 45 degrees is usually good -they are usually easier to get close up. tight uni's work better pointed kinda down from above -pointed across like the omni's will cause cross capturing confusion. you've got a uni directional mic set there with the option of closing the pattern. this can be useful when combined with close micing.

[brandondrury]

time slipping in the post will correct phase of the primary source but

Only at the fundamental frequency. It's complicated without a 10 minute speech on phase and wavelengths. The bottom line is to get the phase right from the gitgo because there is no great way of fixing it after the fact except with a phase alignment tool like the IBP and that can only do so much.

Brandon

[.tom]

ahh.. that would b comb filtering u hear. fazing in n out. cymbals... tru, time slipping will not correct comb filtering and if you've got comb filtering in the post, ur screwwwed there are a lotta peeps that thro up the mics to compliment the cymbal capture and then time slip one ohed to correct the snare -this is wut i'm refering. it just can take a bit of luster from the trax. this is y its best 2 get it spot on thru mic placement. drummers typically put the most often used crash right over tom1/tom2, witch putz it inda middle of a capture along with the snare if the mics r spaced equadistant. if the pair is spaced around those 2 pieces in the kit... sweet it is the often used crash tends 2 take care of itself in the mix with little fuss... cool.

[brandondrury]

there are a lotta peeps that thro up the mics to compliment the cymbal capture and then time slip one ohed to correct the snare -this is wut i'm refering.

Roger that!

Great advice .tom! Your info is right on!

Brandon