Over Shoulder Micing

[lsutigh]

So today i had a band in tracking drums. I decided to try a new idea (to me at least) because I had a couple extra inputs and nothing to lose.

Along with the pretty standard close micing, overheads, and room mics, I decided to try an over the shoulder mic.

I had my NT1a sitting around, so i decided it would be my best option.

My initial hope for this over the should mic was that it would allow for better imaging of the kit.

Since i had it hanging over the drummers right shoulder it was almost uneven.

Once I had a listen to the OHs, room mic, and OS mic I quickly realized that it needed to be come default in my standard drum micing set-up.

I found it not only improve the stereo image of the kit, but it helped capture some of the low end resonance of the floor tom (my sm57s never seem to get quite enough).

All in all I was happy with my experiment.

I am curious to know how many of you have tried or use this mic position?

[dropkickjesus]

I tried this a couple of weeks ago finding that i wasnt getting quite as much low end from my kit as i was wanting (having listened to daughters's new, fucking incredible, album). Except i didnt use a condenser, as the only two i have i use as over heads.

I used a beta52. Thickened the whole thing up a shit load. Still not quite happy with what i've got though. So any suggestions are welcome, seeing as im a total novice.

the track= daughters-the hit

YouTube - Daughters - The Hit

probably better listened to on spotify or something

[garageband]

If you love that, you'll love the full treatment.
Recorderman overhead drum mic technique - Hometracked

BTW, love my Beta 52 on my little 20x16 Slingerland kick. Makes it sound like a big, grown-up drum.

[paul999]

I have done this quite a bit and loved it at first. I then started to notice that my drums were spacious and deep but far away sounding. The more mic's you add into the picture the more wimpy the kit starts to sound(usually). This is were the balance needs to be defined. I ended up mostly keying this over the shoulder mic to the snare so that the rest of the kit was not as wimpy.

[brandondrury]

I then started to notice that my drums were spacious and deep but far away sounding. The more mic's you add into the picture the more wimpy the kit starts to sound(usually).

That's always a concern with minimal micing. The more mics you add, the more distant it gets. That can be a problem sometimes.

Over the years I've come up with dozens of varying overhead configures to work in my small room. (X/Y, about every spaced pair possibility in the world, ORTF, underheads, etc). I've been most happy with getting the overheads as I high as I can in "normal" spaced pair mode looking almost straight down.

Switching from AT4033s to Gefell M930s was a huge help as well.

Brandon

[Can of worms]

Ringo used to have one dangling around his chest I think when playing live at least.I've seen Ringo,Charlie and Bonham with a condensor in the middle position just in front of the toms in the studio(not over shoulder though).They might not have got what some call contemporary drum sounds but they were definately drum sounds.

I think if you google "Andy Johns drum technique" or similar,you'll get a bit of info on how he pans his 2 overheads to make a solid stereo image,there's some odd feature in the panning that aren't cited by other 4 mic techniques,or at least,what I've googled doesn't mention the same panning positions.Johns did the Stones,Zeppellin,Bad company etc...so he's not to be sniffed at.

I've tried allsorts with drums and usually get reasonable results,I've used 4 mic and even 3 and I'm just noodling around with my first mic on every tom experiment.What I'm intending to do,maybe a bit hairbrained,is close mic everything,mix it then blast it out through my PA and throw up three room mics thirty feet back and see what happens,could be great,could be shite but my theory is that I can tailor my close mic mix to suit the room,maybe a lot of trial and error but I'm keen to try it.

[dropkickjesus]

The more mics you add, the more distant it gets. That can be a problem sometimes.

Brandon

i always thought that was just me.
why is this???
i have always been told the more mics the better, so long as you avoid phase issues i didnt see how this could be a bad thing (apart from the fact its a needle in the nob to set up).

[dropkickjesus]

If you love that, you'll love the full treatment.
Recorderman overhead drum mic technique - Hometracked

BTW, love my Beta 52 on my little 20x16 Slingerland kick. Makes it sound like a big, grown-up drum.

I've tried a similar set up to recorderman except i've used the shoulder mic just above the floor tom batter skin pointing at the snare an highhat. Was a lump of fried gold for an experimental punk band i recorded. But aside them i havent found much of a use for it.

The beta52 is genius. The d112 is alright but i find that it can be a bit clicky sometimes.

[paul999]

i always thought that was just me.
why is this???
i have always been told the more mics the better, so long as you avoid phase issues i didnt see how this could be a bad thing (apart from the fact its a needle in the nob to set up).

You can never fully avoid phase issues. Generally the less mic's the better for big in your face sounding drums. It is about how many mics are on at one time. Close mic's if they are gated don't really count.

[dropkickjesus]

Thanks man.

is there anyway you can get rid of phase issues entirely?



I always belived if the 3 to 1 rule is in practice that removes all phasing.
am i being a moron?

[paul999]

[QUOTE]

is there anyway you can get rid of phase issues entirely?

If you sample everything you will have no phasing.

I always belived if the 3 to 1 rule is in practice that removes all phasing.

The 3:1 rule is almost a joke in my experience. Half of the tried and true stereo micing techniques break it(ORTF, X/Y, etc.)

am i being a moron?

Yes So is everyone else that records.

[simman]

The best solution to phase issue with overheads is the recorderman set up. It takes about 2 minutes to position the mics and you're done. This technique works especially well with low ceilings and rooms that are not treated well.

[dropkickjesus]

[QUOTE=paul999;237949]

If you sample everything you will have no phasing.

The 3:1 rule is almost a joke in my experience. Half of the tried and true stereo micing techniques break it(ORTF, X/Y, etc.).

do you mind me asking what your approach to oh micing is? i realise it depends on the situation but what is your most common plan of action?