Ok, Brandon...

[Andrew07]

So I'm ready to start producing a new band. That last "screamo" band I was recording was 4 hours late for a session and I told them that I was sick of their shit and to record somewhere else. I know nothing about this new band besides that they're a hardcore metal band. From a producing standpoint where do I start?

[brandondrury]

Um...

My first screamingly obvious questions is....

Why are you producing a band you know nothing about?

The whole point of producing is to make sure that come out with a recording that is as effective as it can possibly be (by making the music as intense as possible). If you know nothing about the band, I don't think you can even start with producing.

!
I don't know where you stand, but the reason I produce is because I want to work my way up. I eventually want to be part of a recording that effects a lot of people.

There is no way you are going to achieve this is you just record anybody. It sounds to me like you are going on a blind date. Only this blind date may last 6 months or more.

So I would start with making sure they are worth a shit as musicians, but more importantly, as songwriters. If you have to write songs with them, than do it.

The second place I would start would be with a contract of some time. If I new I wanted to do the project, I would lay out all your expectations and figure out a way to achieve this. If the band isn't willing to spend any money they won't be willing to invest their time either so make them commit to something.

When I started my first producing gig, I just wanted a band to do it right. I wanted pro drums recorded on a Neve in a great room (which we got). I wanted 1,000 cds made and I wanted hard promotion. Because of my lack of foresight a lot of that has fallen apart. I should have had a contract that said, that the expenses for this record are going to cost $3500. If the band breaks up or doesn't live up to their end of the bargain, I get the cash.

If you've got a great band, great songs, and a legally binding agreement I'd say that you've got something great happening here. If any of these 3 are compromised, you are screwed and wasting your time.

Be extremely picking about the singer!!! I don't care how heavy it is. If the singer isn't something special, this is waste.

My producing takes me months and months to finish an album. Of course, I'm not yet in a position where I can work on a record 6 days a week. Then I could probably finish one in 8 weeks or so.

Anyway, make sure you really want to spend the next 6 months of your time working for $2 per hour with this band. If you aren't in it balls deep, no one else will be either.

After all this, (maybe before the contract), I would sit down and discuss your vision and their vision. Does their music call for techo Reason drums at times? Are they going to be pissed if you want to go that route? Are they wanting to be heavy as hell while you want to go a more commercially viable path? These questions definitely have to be answered.

Brandon

[dach]

like he said.... only produce for "cash money" or a leg up in the business - everything else is a monetary waste of your time -

unless you have no other value to society.... saving dogs from the pound or walking elderly ladies to their destination are noble ventures compared to producing a bunch of shit heads.

[brandondrury]

Oh my god! That's the most amazing quote I've ever heard.

Never in my life have I felt like most of my life was summed up by a single, simple statement.

I'm not the kind of guy to put quotes in my signature, but I'm about it.

Brandon

[brandondrury]

Back to the topic at hand, let's talk about money.

I realize that a lot of "creative" people don't want to talk about money or they think money is the root of all evil. These people have obviously never done without. The odds are strong that none of us have worried about starving to death. However, try turning the heat off in your house in January or turn off your air conditioner in July. Try walking to where ever it is that you go. Try buying groceries with "creativity" and don't use $$.

Okay, I got that out of the way.

Now let's think about music / producing again.
What are the greatest albums of all time? Out of your list of 5-20 in your head, how many sold less then 10 copies? How many sold less than 3,000,000? In this society, people are greedy with their money and only give it away to causes that they think are worth their money. If you are producing bands that can't sell and hoping to feed yourself, then you had better think again.

I'm not saying that you should ever compromise the music. I can't think of a situation where making X decision hurt the music but improved sales.

Also, don't get it in your head that I'm only talking about Nickelbacks and Justin Timberlake's either. Radiohead sells a shit ton of records. They are corporate out the ass. So is every other band you have ever heard of that doesn't live within 10 blocks of you.

I'm not saying that I'm anywhere near succeeding, but when I do, the entire fucking world will know I've succeeded..if that makes any sense. If you make your dream record and sell 7 copies I'm not even sure if the band would know if you succeeded or not.

Brandon

[Andrew07]

You were completely right about the producing thing dude, and I guess I never really realized thats what producing is. I chose to do this project because these guys have been trying to book me since September and I thought I could use the experience recording a metal band (gotta practice my beat detective and drummagog skills) and get some cash for the holidays.

These kids weren't half bad. The guitars parts were really complex, and the guitarists were the best rock guitars I've ever recorded. I know I wasn't "producing" this band, but I kind of took the "Brandon Drury" approach to the session. I chose not to learn their names and referred to them as "dude" "hey" or whatever instrument they play. I yelled at them a lot to 1. intimidate them a little and 2. get them really pumped. The drummer was hitting his snare weak as shit so I told him he was hitting it like a pussy and to beat that fucking thing. He ended up breaking 4 pairs of sticks in four songs . I know this approach wouldn't really work for a 8 year old recording a Christmas song for her family, but it worked great for a metal band.

I did fuck up really bad though and the day ended up being a complete waste. The band plays SUPER super fast with a bunch of tempo changes, and the drummer just could not play to a click. I had the rhythm guitarist play with the drummer with no click, and because the tempo varied so much and a lot of the take was feel, when it came time for overdubs, we just couldn't get certain parts to work. I gave the drummer my Boss metronome and told him to practice to a click and come back when he's ready. What should I have done?

[brandondrury]

The band plays SUPER super fast with a bunch of tempo changes, and the drummer just could not play to a click.

I always question this. It stems from cerebral decision making and not so much from making the music better. It's like a guitar player walks into practice and says "You know what. We need our music to be more complicated". Then the bass player walks in and says "Yeah, even though the songs won't be any more effective to the listener, we SHOULD waste the extra time making a song complicated". The then drummer says "I love this idea! Of course, we'll spend way more time tinkering around with one song for little to no reason that we should and end up not writing enough songs. However, we will feel smart for making the song complicated".

I guess that I don't recall that many songs that have tempo changes that require the number on the metronome to change. I'm all for half time and all that, but the music I listen to (EVERYTHING!) seldom changes tempo in strange ways like a lot of the modern metal does.

The drummer was hitting his snare weak as shit so I told him he was hitting it like a pussy and to beat that fucking thing. He ended up breaking 4 pairs of sticks in four songs . I know this approach wouldn't really work for a 8 year old recording a Christmas song for her family, but it worked great for a metal band.

Great! Your drummer is off to a great start. However, if he didn't bust through a snare head that day, he probably wasn't hitting hard enough. He's still a pussy. When you re-record him next time, make sure you pass this info on. Also make sure that he has 2 snare heads.

I had the rhythm guitarist play with the drummer with no click, and because the tempo varied so much and a lot of the take was feel, when it came time for overdubs, we just couldn't get certain parts to work.

The "anti-click" bands usually end up spending a zillion hours on overdubs trying to match the drums. If the drummer isn't good enough, you have problems without the click. The best drummers don't need a click, but I don't have the zillion dollars it costs to hire them.

I'm not an excessive stickler for timing for the sake of timing. If a song loses something because the groove falls apart, then we have a seriously problem. However, a little human stuff is fine by me.

Metal is very stiff these days and they probably want that sound. You should send an email to the drummer and let him know that even though he can do double bass and all this crazy Slipknot drumming bullshit, that's only part of what makes a good drummer. A great drummer can do all that candy stuff and has an amazing sense of groove and time. He needs to work on this.

I ALWAYS tried to work with my bands and help them improve. This is mainly so the next recording I do with them can improve drastically.

Brandon