New to Audio Engineering

[NickJHiebert5]

Hey, my name is Nick, I'm 19 and I have been recording (ghetto-style) and tinkering with music since I was about 13 (using the input jack on my computer and Cool Edit). Since then a lot has happened to make me realise that I want to record and procuce music for a living. About a year ago, I first realised I wanted to get into it when I saw a video of Butch Vig using his mixer to decompile a Nirvana song he had recorded for Nevermind, I just thought to myself "that looks like a HELL of a lot of fun".

So, I took a course at a local studio, it was inexpensive and they taught me a lot about Pro Tools and other DAWs, mics, pre-amps, processors, EQs, etc. So, it prompted me to buy my own gear so I could apply what I had learned to myself so I could record my own music.

Here I have a list of everything I wish to purchase online, I'll have some follow-up questions regarding the list (mind you, I'm just starting out, so most of this is bottom-of-the-line).

Software/DAWs:

Pro Tools 7.3 M-Powered
Reason 4
Waves Gold Native + Renaissance Native to Platinum Native Upgrade (plug-ins)

Audio Interface:

M-Audio 1814 (I'll probably end up getting this one)
OR
PreSonus Firebox

Monitors:

Alesis ProLInear 820 2-Way Active Studio Monitor

Mixer:

Behringer Eurodesk SL2442FX-PRO Mixer (24-channel balanced mixer)

Microphones:

AKG Perception 200 Condenser
Shure PG 6-Piece Drum Mic Package
Shure Beta 91 Bass Drum Microphone
PreSonus AT2141 Condenser Microphone
Shure SM57 x2
R0DE NT1
Apex181 USB Condenser (I already have this, but I'll probably shit-can it soon. It makes a horrid high-pitched squealing as it records)

MIDI Controller:

Yamaha Blem MM6 Music Synthesizer Workstation

Outboard:

Furman M-8L Power Conditioner
DBX PB-48 48-Point 1/4" Patchbay
Behringer Ultra PRO DI800 (unbalanced to balanced converter)
PreSonus Blue Tube Vocal Preamp
BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
Alesis 3630 Dual-Channel Compressor/Limiter with Gate
Behringer FBQ6200 Ultragraph Pro EQ

Now, my questions are:

1) Am I missing anything? Like, outboard components, mics, software, I might want, etc?

2) Can the mixer I have chosen be connected to the audio interface I've also chosen and be able control the mixer in Pro Tools? (My reason for this is that I really don't fancy Pro Tools' mixing interface, I much prefer the analog mixer). The Studio I was taught at used a "Control 24" Digi-design mixer that seemed to operate as a part of Pro Tools, rather than a completely seperate piece of hardware. I read that I may need a "DAW surface controller", but then what piece of hardware do I use to plug in more than 16-24 channels and record them all at the same time and have them record in 16-24 corresponding tracks Pro Tools?

3) What FireWire/USB Audio Interface is best for me, even if it's not one of the two I had listed. I just want to get my money's worth.

4) Any other advice on entering the field? About software, equipment, mics, etc?

Thanks a LOT to anyone who responds.

-Nick

[richiebee]

Hold on there buddy... you're spending way too much money and getting a lot of stuff that you don't need.

Tell us what your budget is (clearly pretty big!), and what instrumentation you intend to record, and how you intend to record it (live vs multitrack), and what kind of space you're going to be recording in.

We can offer better suggestions with that information.

I really recommend not buying anything on your list just yet...

Also, I realize you've just done a ProTools course, but are you married to it? I'm sure the studio you used was not using ProTools M-Powered, more likely using a TDM system with the Control 24. It's a different world! There is much more flexible software out there than ProTools, so if you're not 100% set on it, we can offer so much more for your money.

[NickJHiebert5]

I was just hoping to do multi-track recording in my basement. I intend to record arrangments such as a 6-piece studio drumset, 1 or 2 guitars, bass, 1 (maybe 2) vocalists, and maybe a piano or synth.

I'm most familiar with Pro Tools, I wouldn't feel comfortable using any other software besides Pro Tools because I can't garentee success with anything else. I don't want to have to re-learn how to use a new DAW.

And my budget was $7000.

[richiebee]

Okay, Protools it is then...

Start with Protools LE and a Digi 003 or 003R (depending on whether you need faders) - $1200 or $2200
Focusrite OctopreLE 8-channel mic pre - $600 (or some other mic pre with at least 4 channels)

Your choice of monitors (I think you can do better than Alesis for the money but thats a personal choice)
Your choice of microphones
Your choice of keyboard
Furman power conditioner.
Reason.
two or three pairs of good closed headphones (Sennheiser HD280's are nice you might like one decent set for you, the engineer, plus a couple of cheapers sets for the other performers)
possibly a headphone distribution amplifier (cheap is fine - behringer or presonus will do, its just for monitoring while recording)

That's it. Spend the rest on cables, acoustic treatments and/or computer upgrade.

Waves Platinum is way overkill (and overpriced!) for the quality of the rest of the gear you have specified, and if you're mixing ITB (learned that term this week!), you don't need all the external signal processors. Analog outboard at your level is a waste of money. Once you've processed your signal, you can't take it away. Mixing in the box will give you more experience in finding what you like and what you don't, and a better result. When you're a mixing grand master, you might want to get high end external processors... then again, you may not.

The Behringer mixer is unsuitable - it doesn't have individula outputso n every channel so you'd only get a max of 4 outputs simultanously... that doesn't even cover your drum kit! It also has built in effects - I can almost guarantee that you'd NEVER use any of them for recording.

ProTools comes with its own decent quality plugins. EQ's, Compressor/Limiter, Gate/Expanders etc. I have Waves Diamond with a ProTools TDM system, but I use the digidesign plugins more frequently than I use the diamond plugins. On an LE system the Waves plugins will take a lot of processing power too. They don't on a TDM system if you buy TDM plugins, but you can't use them on LE or M-Powered systems.

R.

[NickJHiebert5]

Thanks alot, man. With your suggestions, I was able to knock about $2000 off my budget. And this setup will be able to do multi-track recording?


RACK:

Digi-Design Digi 003 Rack Factory Pro Tools LE System $1549.00
Focusrite Octopre LE 8-Channel Preamp $599.99
Furman M-8L Power Conditioner $84.99

CABLES/STANDS/OTHER GEAR:

On-Stage Stands Mic Stand Package $99.99
Musicians Gear XLR Microphone Cable 10-pack $49.99
DRUMS $600-$800
8-Space Raxxess Oak Studio Rack $83.99

MONITORS/PHONES:

Alesis ProLinear 820 2-Way Active Studio Monitor $199.99 x 2

MICROPHONES:

Shure PG 6-Piece Drum Microphone Package $399.99
AKG Perception 200 Condenser Microphone $159.99
Shure SM57 $99.99 X 2
R0DE NT1 $159.99
Sennheiser evolution e901 $229.99
Shure Beta 91 Bass Drum Microphone $219.99
Audio-Technica Blem AT4050/CM5 $521.99

MIDI:

Yamaha Blem MM6 Music Synthesizer Workstation $479.20

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by NickJHiebert5

And this setup will be able to do multi-track recording?

As long as your computer is up to it.

Rich

[NickJHiebert5]

Originally Posted by richiebee

As long as your computer is up to it.

Rich

I noticed that the 003 Rack Factory has 4 simultanious balanced tracks, and the Octopre LE has 8. So, does that mean that I can record 12 seperate tracks at once in Pro Tools if I configure the hardware correctly?

[richiebee]

I don't know. You might be able to with the optional AD/DA card in the Octopre that gives you lightpipe connectivity. (Lightpipe, or ADAT format allows the transmission of 8 simultaneous channels). Connecting in analog as I envisaged, means you'll only have 8 total inputs on the 003 - you can either use the four built in pre's, plus four from the Octopre, or 8 from the Octopre, and totally bypass those in the 003. You won't be able to use the 4 in the 003, plus the 8 in the Octopre unless you can use the lightpipe connection. You should definitely check before you buy though if this is an issue, because if it doesn't give you this advantage, getting the AD/DA card in the Octopre would probably be a bit of a waste of money. The info page on the 003 doesn't really say whether you can get a total of 12 inputs using the lightpipe connection with the built in pre's... a question to put to digi. Don't trust a salesman on this one unless they can demonstrate!

[NickJHiebert5]

I'm using a laptop, so installing cards is out of the question. But, I'd need more than just 4 channels to do recording.

**EDIT. I just looked up the 003 Rack Factory. It says it supports 18 simultanious channels I/O. Can I record those channels seperately in Pro Tools?

[richiebee]

The option card goes in the Octopre, not in your computer... You have your answer as far as ProTools/003 is concerned... you will get 12 though, unless you are clever

How fast is your hard drive? This is where the bottle neck is likely to be in getting 12 or more tracks recording simultaneously... in fact, you may well have trouble with 8 unless your laptop has a 7200rpm drive (unlikely).