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  1. #1
    paul999's Avatar
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    Default Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    I was trying to sell my mexi fender strat for $375. The gentleman that wanted to buy the guitar learned I had a recording studio and asked me if I would be interested in trading straight a cross for this deck previously owned buy the CBC in Canada. It is in fantastic shape, well maintained, came with 2 rolls of virgin tape as well as 2 take up reels and a road case. I cleaned the heads and got it up and running. It sounded a little different then I expected. I has less obvious tape compression then my fostex G16s had. I haven't had a chance to really out it through its paces. Does anyone have experience with these.

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    No experience, but you made one hell of a deal. Is this one where you can electrically do 2 and 4 track ?
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Paul, the lack of compression is pretty much due to it being 1/4 tape. I've never had a 1/4 that gave me that tape compression sound the right way. I never experienced tape comp until I got my first 1 inch machine. The 1 inch was really killer...but my 2 inch, mmm pure bliss for that sort of thing.

    Is your Studer a vari-speed? Sometimes you can get a lil more tape comp out of them by bringing the speed up believe it or not as more music will get ingested onto the tape. Then again, it could be my ears playing tricks on me...but it sure does appear to comp a bit more with faster tape speed and an increased input.

    What's that go to, 15 ips or something? Try jacking it wide open and see if you hear a difference. I've always had the best results with all my tape machines being wide open speed wise. Congrats....quite a find there. Even if you find yourself not using it as often as you might hope, it's definitely a cool piece to have. I still have 2 old 1/4 machines. A Tascam and a Teac. Though I don't use them anymore, I'd never part with them.

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by paul999
    I was trying to sell my mexi fender strat for $375. The gentleman that wanted to buy the guitar learned I had a recording studio and asked me if I would be interested in trading straight a cross for this deck previously owned buy the CBC in Canada. It is in fantastic shape, well maintained, came with 2 rolls of virgin tape as well as 2 take up reels and a road case. I cleaned the heads and got it up and running. It sounded a little different then I expected. I has less obvious tape compression then my fostex G16s had. I haven't had a chance to really out it through its paces. Does anyone have experience with these.
    Dude, just stop! Just stop making me jealous with all your vintage toy finds!



    Would love to hear some of your work done on it. Can you upload a pic?
    TonyB
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by Danny Danzi
    ... the lack of compression is pretty much due to it being 1/4 tape. Sometimes you can get a lil more tape comp out of them by bringing the speed up believe it or not as more music will get ingested onto the tape. Then again, it could be my ears playing tricks on me...but it sure does appear to comp a bit more with faster tape speed and an increased input.

    What's that go to, 15 ips or something? Try jacking it wide open and see if you hear a difference. I've always had the best results with all my tape machines being wide open speed wise.
    Based on my frequent use of my Otari MX5050, I can get behind all this. 15ips will also have a different response curve to 7 1/2 ips. The 1/4" 1/2 track format used the physically widest track of any format so it's nature is less compressive. If you crank up the input so the VUs bounce enthusiastically into the red, you get some decent mild "coalescing" compression that you'll like, especially on jazz and other acoustically-based music.

    Flush with all the saved cash from this transaction, I'd recommend a couple of Dolby frames that will at least do A if not SR. These machines use a compression/expansion scheme to drive the noise floor and tape hiss down. Their use also results in a very familiar sort of compression that has become part and parcel to historic "tape sound".

    Hopefully I'm not contributing too much because I don't know anything, haven't done anything and my music is basically amateurish shit.
    "Well, if music's gonna move me, it's gotta be action packed!" - Johnny Dollar


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    paul999's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by Danny Danzi
    What's that go to, 15 ips or something? Try jacking it wide open and see if you hear a difference. I've always had the best results with all my tape machines being wide open speed wise. Congrats....quite a find there. Even if you find yourself not using it as often as you might hope, it's definitely a cool piece to have. I still have 2 old 1/4 machines. A Tascam and a Teac. Though I don't use them anymore, I'd never part with them.
    It doesn't say vari speed on it but it has 3 speeds. 3.5 IPS, 7 IPS and 15 IPS which is what I used. I could hear that nice rubbery super low end when I recorded a mix on to it. I only got to only listen in headphones and I'm off to the studio today. So I will be able to find out a little more tonight.

    Interesting about the tape compression Danny. I was wondering if my memory was playing tricks on me.

    Here is a pic for ya TonyB.

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    Danny Danzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by paul999
    It doesn't say vari speed on it but it has 3 speeds. 3.5 IPS, 7 IPS and 15 IPS which is what I used. I could hear that nice rubbery super low end when I recorded a mix on to it. I only got to only listen in headphones and I'm off to the studio today. So I will be able to find out a little more tonight.

    Interesting about the tape compression Danny. I was wondering if my memory was playing tricks on me.
    Yeah I really can't validate anything with the tape stuff to be honest Paul. I've used it for years, but pretty much "just used it" and can only speak from what my ears told me. I'd be willing to bet your Studer smokes both my Tascam and my Teac, so what I add to the discussion is most likely apples to oranges in that respect. It just seemed to me I got a bit more of that consistent, punchy sound when driving harder at 15ips.

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    Danny Danzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by garageband
    Based on my frequent use of my Otari MX5050, I can get behind all this. 15ips will also have a different response curve to 7 1/2 ips. The 1/4" 1/2 track format used the physically widest track of any format so it's nature is less compressive. If you crank up the input so the VUs bounce enthusiastically into the red, you get some decent mild "coalescing" compression that you'll like, especially on jazz and other acoustically-based music.
    That Otari stuff has always been noted as incredible around these parts. Unfortunately, I've never had the chance to work with one to find out for myself. But I've never heard a single bad thing about anything they make. "Coalescing"...man, I've not heard that term in a long time. Perfect way to describe it actually.

    Originally Posted by garageband
    Flush with all the saved cash from this transaction, I'd recommend a couple of Dolby frames that will at least do A if not SR. These machines use a compression/expansion scheme to drive the noise floor and tape hiss down. Their use also results in a very familiar sort of compression that has become part and parcel to historic "tape sound".
    This is one thing I never quite understood....Dolby! I have it on my Tascam 1/4, the 1 inch and the 2 inch. The Teac doesn't have it. But anyway...I notice if I record with it on the machines that have it, turning it off actually gives me more noise than if I don't record with it. Does this have something to do with compression and noise like you were mentioning before? I have no idea how this works other than what I've mentioned above and if I used it on a cassette bounce and played it through a system that didn't have Dolby, the hiss was worse than not recording with Dolby at all. So my best way of using it was using it on my big recording machines and leaving it on, and not using it on cassette dubs using the cassette deck Dolby.

    Originally Posted by garageband
    Hopefully I'm not contributing too much because I don't know anything, haven't done anything and my music is basically amateurish shit.
    Wow, this was a really good read until you included this part. Have I ever implied that you don't know anything, haven't done anything or are an amateur? If you were throwing this out due to my thread I replied to before mentioning "credibility in posts" I would think that it would be easy to read between the lines that you are not someone that speaks for the sake of a voice that starts trouble on here with meaningless jargon and a terrible delivery. I've actually found your posts quite helpful and informative with good delivery and credibility.

    You've been argumentive when you've felt strongly about things (as I have too) and that's admirable as you always back up what you say with good info. I'm not sure why you'd feel the need to include that last line, but it appears you may have taken something I've said to heart when I wasn't really shooting in your direction. So accept my apology if you read into anything, but it wasn't intended for you as I'm sure others as well as myself respect and appreciate your opinions and help you've offered on here. I'm sorry if you took what I said wrong.

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    garageband's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Apology accepted. Just oversensitive recently. Must be that time of the month.
    This is one thing I never quite understood....Dolby!
    Wrapping my head around it took way more reading than I imagined. And that was just the start. It's not really coding/decoding, it's more pre-emphasis/de-emphasis. The A type is a broadband style. The SR type is multiband style that's more effective. A common effect from the old days (mid '70s) for backing vocals was to use to pre-emphasis side of a Dolby A machine to make that "Bohemian Rhapsody" brite vocal. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing the Cars' "Hello Again" also has this on it. Some Carpenter's stuff. Def Leppard fer sure.
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    I don't even have 15ips, but my understanding is that most machines give a better bass at the slower speed, and 30ips gives you airy highs. When I heard that explanation, I wondered if that was ever actually measured. I always just thunk this was a density issue. Clouding all that is the head design and just how well tape actually makes contact on any given machine.

    I was all hot to experiment with some N/R when I recently got back into collecting old gear, but I'm not so sure I want to go that way. You can have some fun just mis-matching tapes and bias. Like on Boston's first.

    There are at least two interesting web pages out there that can help with explaining N/R tech.

    With my old cassettes, I ended-up recording without NR unless it was quiet music. Aiwa had a dinky HR I've been looking to re-acquire since lightning hit me. Those boxes were you can set parameters are proven processors with interesting board topology, but I would think much of that can be replicated in software. I don't mean the plugs, but that recording and playback curves and emphasis have been hand tweaked for a very long time.
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    This one has BIAS on the front along with a tone generator. Obviously, one doesn't want this control on a studio machine much less on a mastering deck : )
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    paul999's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by garageband
    Flush with all the saved cash from this transaction, I'd recommend a couple of Dolby frames that will at least do A if not SR. These machines use a compression/expansion scheme to drive the noise floor and tape hiss down. Their use also results in a very familiar sort of compression that has become part and parcel to historic "tape sound".
    This is an excellent point. My Fostex G16s that i liked the compression had dolby s.

    I did a test. I recorded an 8 min song on it and re-recorded into the computer. I lined up the files to see if they stayed timed up from beginning to end and they did perfectly. It was better then the old symte timing I used to use. At the end of the song I when I recorded back into the computer I stopped the Studer 5 seconds before I stopped the computer. I wanted to see the difference in noise floor between studer and no studer. I was also going through my D&R console which is the quietest of all consoles or so they say. When I zoomed in to max wave form in the last 10 seconds I could not find the point where I stopped tape. Their is no hiss at all with no noise reduction that I can hear.

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by garww
    I don't even have 15ips, but my understanding is that most machines give a better bass at the slower speed,
    I'll have to let you know. If I can't hear it, it isn't worth noting IMO.

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Originally Posted by paul999
    I'll have to let you know. If I can't hear it, it isn't worth noting IMO.
    It so happened that I found freq curves for a 67 at 7 1/2, 15, and 30ips online a few hours ago.
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    It so happened that I found freq curves for a 67 at 7 1/2, 15, and 30ips online a few hours ago
    Can you post it?

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    You can do a search. I was searching various scotch bias formulations. I am still trying to get a handle on 150, 203, 206, and 226 so I was searchin' bias scotch 203 , etc.. It did show a decent(favorable) roll-off at 15ips.
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    pss790&370, K1,K1r, d-5, qy10, x-fi notebook, gina20, turser p90 sg, Ibanez steel string, Bongos, Washboard, Roberts 770 w/dual EF86, cedar ridge acoustic, EKO Ranger 12-string, DeArmond M65, Electromatic JJ bass, DeArmond M75, Fulltone FD2, Tannoy Sixes, DPS,DR1,DR-X m106, dbx128, korg SQ1, akai s2000, tascam PS5, ultraNOVA, dod 866ii

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Here's some curves of mostly big head count, but there is some reference two track towards the bottom;
    Response Curves of Analog Recorders
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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Thanks graww I will check those out.

    Here is a very unscientific studer experiment. I took a song I recorded and put in BTR complaining of mixing untight performances. I don't think this was the final mix I chose this because it is intentionally a very bassy track. I recorded it to the studer and placed it along side the digital track. I was very enthusiastic with the input gain giving this some not nice compression. It already had some not nice compression to begin with. I did no eqing etc. I flip back and forth about a half dozen times


    I would add some highs to the studer track if I was mastering. I like how smooth they are but I really love the low end on this. I can see that with the right input gain that this will tighten up some low on tracks I may use it on. I am thinking mostly drum buss without O.H's, bass and then mix the entire mix to it.

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    Default Re: Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck.

    Ya, the last two bass notes at the you're all gray ending shows some promise. I really like the balance on my fones and speakers. I like the snare tuning, too.
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Recording Toys And Tactics Thread, Just got a Studer B-67 reel to reel mastering deck. in Recording Engineers / Producers; I was trying to sell my mexi fender strat for $375. The gentleman that wanted to buy the guitar learned ...

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