The Ideal RMS Mix Level?

[brandondrury]

I learn something new at least once a decade.

Boz just mentioned the itunes sound check thing New Org Champions Dynamic Range Over Loudness that he claims

...To me, that one check box solves the problem almost completely.

in regard to loudness issues.

I'm so used to mixing with an RMS meter on that I think I may need an RMS meter on. I like it. My work sounds better when I have some kind of lines I know I'm supposed to park within.

I'm assuming that we could put this Itunes level check business on every device on the planet (not gonna happen), then what RMS level would we pick for sound quality reasons? I guess this comes down to mix density, which is the major sonic difference between production in 2012 verse music in 1982 or 1992.

When I mix at -10dB RMS (TT meter) I don't even have to try to make it loud. I don't even know if I hit my brickwall limiter much at all. 99% of all peaks get addressed before that.

Brandon

[garageband]

I don't even know if I hit my brickwall limiter much at all. 99% of all peaks get addressed before that.

This is how I know when I'm doing it right.

[m24p]

I haven't done extensive studies or experiments but I'd probably go for something around -9 or so.

[EnSkorSang]

I generally set the kick or other 'most powerful' element to around -20 and then dont check anything. It always comes out around -12 to -8...

I asked about it before we got our EP mastered, and was told that 'as long as nothing is clipping or hitting 0 and its at 24bits, then it doesn't matter'.

The problem with itunes sound check is that it ruins the larger scale dynamics across an album. Most albums I have contain a mix of louder songs and softer songs. Often the softer songs might be mastered a couple of db lower to increase the sense of intimacy and give a sense of movement from one song to the next. And in contrast the more powerful ones feel more powerful.
Sound check ruins that. In many cases it doesnt seem to stop at just putting the softer ones up by 2 db. As they generally contain less instruments/are sparser, it seems to me that itunes further interprets this as level drop and puts them up higher than they should be. Making the soft songs stupidly loud...

[bozmillar]

I suppose it depends on the song. I think some songs benefit by being smashed. Others don't. when done right, heavy limiting can really make a kick drum feel like it's kicking you in the stomach. It also depends on how loud you are listening to it. I think heavy limiting sounds better at high listening levels than it does at low listening levels.

[garageband]

The problem with itunes sound check is that it ruins the larger scale dynamics across an album. Most albums I have contain a mix of louder songs and softer songs. Often the softer songs might be mastered a couple of db lower to increase the sense of intimacy and give a sense of movement from one song to the next. And in contrast the more powerful ones feel more powerful.
Sound check ruins that. In many cases it doesnt seem to stop at just putting the softer ones up by 2 db. As they generally contain less instruments/are sparser, it seems to me that itunes further interprets this as level drop and puts them up higher than they should be. Making the soft songs stupidly loud...

Well, there's the problem. You were actually trying to listen to music for enjoyment. How quaint!

[bozmillar]

The problem with itunes sound check is that it ruins the larger scale dynamics across an album. Most albums I have contain a mix of louder songs and softer songs. Often the softer songs might be mastered a couple of db lower to increase the sense of intimacy and give a sense of movement from one song to the next. And in contrast the more powerful ones feel more powerful.
Sound check ruins that. In many cases it doesnt seem to stop at just putting the softer ones up by 2 db. As they generally contain less instruments/are sparser, it seems to me that itunes further interprets this as level drop and puts them up higher than they should be. Making the soft songs stupidly loud...

This is my main issue with it. If it applied a constant gain to the entire album, I think it would be pretty much perfect. But when song levels change in the same album, it's a bit awkward. It would be a very easy solution for them to implement, but I doubt they ever will.

[EnSkorSang]

Well, there's the problem. You were actually trying to listen to music for enjoyment. How quaint!