I hate compressors!

[brandondrury]

would you squash an already HI gained guitar sound, or samples that have already been compressed ?

One reason is to bring out harmonic content without resorting to EQ. I don't think "squash" is the right word with a high gain electric guitar because as Vulcon has pointed out, dynamics were tossed out in that signal long before hand when the guitar player set his gain knob.

I don't always compress distorted electric guitar, but when I do it's for tonal reasons. When dealing with the high gain stuff, I'd say there is zero difference in actual dynamics. It certainly doesn't sound squashed.

I think there is a huge difference between using lots of compression during tracking and individual tracks during mixing verses the 2bus and mastering stages. Heavy compression is nothing new.

When I saw Micheal Wagener knocking 10-18dB off a vocal during tracking and then knocking another 20dB during mixing I asked him if this was normal. He said "Oh hell! I've been doing this forever." We can debate the point, but for us rock guys he's a robo mega engineer who has made some outstanding sounding recordings that don't sound smashed in any way (in my opinion).

Of course, you mix Ozzy Osbourne differently than you do James Taylor or Mariah Carey.

Did they post on this site. I meant home audio guys posting to this site.

So you are basically saying that overcompression is a home recording land problem. I can't disagree, but let me add the following:

songwriting
performance
acoustics
engineering
mixing
mastering

All of these are shortcomings in home recordings most of the time. That's kind of the deal. None of us are "there yet".

So what are we discussing on this post, exactly? Is overcompression (particularly on the 2bus) an issue at Bash This Recording? Sure. I don't think anyone is going to debate that.

Then again, I think there are zillions of other issues that also warrant improvement. Where does a person start?

Brandon

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by PeterPav

Ouch! subliminal messaging, and clever too. Did I mention I just escaped from Bellvue Hospital, looking to kill smart ass audio engineers Tony? Just Kidding. Have a nice day really.

Actually, not trying to be a smart ass! Squashing the hell out of vocals via heavy compression is the norm for today's music.

On a daily basis I work with two different genres that take two different (and not necessarily wrong) approaches.

First, is my sons' (twin boys, 15 yrs) band who write some darn good music, but 90% of it is processed. The only real instruments on their recordings is the cymbals and toms. The rest of the drums (although using a real drum kit in the studio) are Drumagogg'ed per their request. The guitars (although they have some real nice expensive guitars) are recorded direct and aided with Guitar Rig 3. Their vocals are heavily compressed and Autotuned for effect. Yes, Autotune as in the "Cher effect" where T-Pain, Kanye West, etc are making it a comeback.

Second, the guy I've been working with where I posted some Bash This Recording songs (Everytime, Honest Man), do nothing but real recordings. He would have my head if I overcompressed (intentionally, sometimes I go too far), Autotuned, or processed anything for effect. If we don't have the dynamics we want, we do the UNTHINKABLE.....we re-track it from scratch, which many times consists of re-miking whether with a different mike, different placement, different preamp....or heaven forbid....a better performance.

It isn't wrong in each case. Heavy compression is good if that's the effect you're going for. Heavy compression is not good if that's not the effect you're going for.

Okay back to the hospital for me.....

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by PeterPav

Tony, Sorry for jumping to conclusions. Everyones against me AHHHH! LOL

I don't hate you yet, but give it time!

There's a wide variety of "compression" camps out there and sometimes it's tough to tell which camper you are on any given day.

Okay, back to my marshmallows now.

[brandondrury]

dynamics were tossed out in that signal long before hand when the guitar player set his gain knob.

Maybe not if it were Jeff Beck or Jimi Hendrix or even Eddie VanHalen

When Jimi had the fuzz thing going on, it was entirely saturated and therefor you could compress it without any noticeable loss in dynamics. The Van Halen brown sound on the first record is entirely saturated and you could compress it without any loss of dynamics.

There are some songs where he rolls back the volume knob or uses a clean tone (especially later on) and those parts do still have some dynamics.

Of course, there are often sonic benefits to compressing clean guitars too.

Brandon

[johncub]

Of course, there are often sonic benefits to compressing clean guitars too.

I actually really really like the country compression on a guitar, where it is so noticable even a non-musician can hear it. This was one of the primary reasons I wanted a compressor. Obviously lots of people like it since it is and has been so prevalent on so many recordings.

sadly, that's about the only thing I know how to consistently do with my compressor at this stage but life is a classroom and I'm learning as I go.

[MetalDave]

Originally Posted by Cailyn

Huh? Compressors have nothing to do with capturing a sound unless you use it in the recording chain which generally makes no sense.

When you are trying to record something that the volume seems to be drastically intermittent sounding from too loud to too quiet, it is sometimes not a bad idea to use an outboard compressor/limitter to keep the original signal tighter. It keeps the sound from peaking and also compresses it to keep it from being too quiet. So I disagree with not using it if it seems it is needed. A good vocalist shouldn't need to be compressed or limitted but, these are cases I have done it Live and in the studio.

[PeterPav]

I just visited Rick Rubins website and his studio is packed with analog outboard gear. Does he ever use it ?

[Vulconizer]

My guess is he never does. I take that from what he has said about his not being an engineer or "knob turner".

I will assume though, that the folks he uses as engineers do and usually to good effect. I doubt they only use the outboard stuff though. My guess is that guys of that caliber are going to make use of whatever they deem able to do the job they need to accomplish.

[fortyseven]

Is it just me or does this thread have gaps? Have posts been deleted? Im losing the point of all this.

[Electriclight]

Is it just me or does this thread have gaps? Have posts been deleted?

Gaps? Yup, gaps.

Brandon post #15:

Alright kids. I've had to clean this one up a bit. Let's keep this fun.