Hello

[JDWhite]

Hi All,

Complete recording newbie here. Actually I have been recording for awhile, just not correctly. This is how I found this site. I have a lot to learn. I have been playing guitar for quite a while, and I thought that recording was going to be easy when I started. After many years I have found out that there is so much behind it. I think this is cool because I always enjoy learning new ideas. My biggest problem right now is about the controversy of recording levels. I was always under the assumption that you recorded as hot as you could under 0db and then figure the rest out in the mix. I tried this, and thought I was on the right path. I recorded everything as hot as I could and then tried to compress it all and it's not working.

I recently read an article that said this couldn't be further from the truth, and that you should record at approx. -18db at 24 bit. I am talking digital BTW, and I use Cubase. This idea is said to leave you with much fuller sounding everything, and more (Headroom?) to mix and play with. But if I were to record that low, how do I get my levels up to listening volume? aaghhhhhh. I have a lot of questions. If you guys could point me to where to start, that would be great. I don't want to bore you with my "new guy" questions until I am stumped. Thank god for this site. I think I have some really cool songs that I have recorded over the years, but have never done it right.

Great to meet you all.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks,

JD

[paul999]

Welcome JD.

With recording levels you do want to get as close to zero as possible without going over BUT!!!!!!. Don't over think this. I usually set my highest level at about -9 so that I have some head room left if I get "exited" and start playing louder during the take. Getting levels up to listening volume have nothing to do with this part of the process. That comes much, much later. Turn up your speakers for now until you actually start mixing.

[newkid]

Originally Posted by JDWhite

Hi All,

... My biggest problem right now is about the controversy of recording levels.

what controversy?

I was always under the assumption that you recorded as hot as you could under 0db and then figure the rest out in the mix.

bad assumption. you were wrong.

I tried this, and thought I was on the right path. I recorded everything as hot as I could and then tried to compress it all and it's not working.

disproving your assumption! good start.

I recently read an article that said this couldn't be further from the truth, and that you should record at approx. -18db at 24 bit. ...

depending on teh standard you want to be -18 or -24 dbFS
that gives your Peaks room so they dont clip and distort
while you keep the average loudness up

But if I were to record that low, how do I get my levels up to listening volume? aaghhhhhh.

you turn the knob to the right
on the playback amp

I have a lot of questions.

ask away. search the site - may be answered already.
read some books. experiment like you did above.

If you guys could point me to where to start, that would be great. I don't want to bore you with my "new guy" questions until I am stumped.
...

public library will be full of books on recording
ditto borders and amazon

[willjrockstar]

Dont worry about final levels thats for a matering engineer. If you want a loud cd, first and for most you need an excellent mix. The better the mix, the easier it will be to get up to volume.

Trying to record as close to 0 db as possible, is how its done in the analog world but in the digital world -6 is the highest peak i would allow.

[brandondrury]

The better the mix, the easier it will be to get up to volume.

This is mega true and pretty much every big boy mix is louder than you think before the mastering guy gets a hold of it. A mix shouldn't be too far from it's final goal particularly in the peak - RMS ratio stuff.

I was always under the assumption that you recorded as hot as you could under 0db and then figure the rest out in the mix. I tried this, and thought I was on the right path. I recorded everything as hot as I could and then tried to compress it all and it's not working.

Even if you track extremely hot, you still have volume faders. I don't track all that hot (maybe -10dB for most peaks give or take) but it's not a big deal to pull a fader down. You can always make up for the gain with a brickwall limiter on the 2bus.

Keep an eye out for my official release of Killer Home Recording. It should be right up your alley solving this and about 50,000 other problems.

Brandon

[BatPat]

Originally Posted by JDWhite

I was always under the assumption that you recorded as hot as you could under 0db...

There was a time not too long ago when all the "experts" in magazines and on various internet sites actually said you should do this, in order to get the most out of the sound being recorded, use as much of the bit depth as possible and so on.
Somehow they've all changed their minds
I remember recording hot as hell to avoid using 24 bit and ending up sounding like 16 bit. So much for the expertise...
In general - use your gut reactions to make decisions, not your brain. In the musical world the brain is useless.

[JDWhite]

Hi BatPat,

Thanks for the reply. So far so good. So don't push up to 0db then. What about what I was saying about the -18db? Does anyone else adhere to this? The article I read (I will find the link for you guys) suggested that you should peak at -6db. I know that there are no strict rules, but I need some rough guidelines for nice full sound. Then once I get say 4 tracks recorded, (drums, bass, vocals, and guitar) what is the rule of thumb for levels mixing and the best way to get them to a good listening level? Thanks for your help,

JD

[BatPat]

Hi JD!
Sorry that I didn't welcome you to this forum - I got too excited :-)

When recording, all you have to do is avoid clipping. If you peak at -14db or -1db doesn't really matter in my opinion, and I'm talking rockmusic, not classical music, if by chance there is any difference? Bet there is.
If you peak at -1db and then insert EQ, or whatever, that might add gain and clipping. But as Brandon says, there are faders. There also are gain-controllers in most plug-ins.
The mixing stage and levels depends on what you are going to do with it. If you're going to master then maybe you would peak at somewhere around -3db or maybe more (those mastering wants headroom). If no mastering is planned then go for it...
A good mix comes before a good listening level. What is a good mix? And what is a good listening level? Who knows? It depends on who you ask when, like almost everything in the recording/mixing business.
I'm just as confused as you are...

[TonyB]

In the most simplest (and maybe intuitive sense), in the analog days you would record as hot as possible for a better S/N. However, with a digital system (AD/DA, DAW) there is no S/N to worry about, so you can record at -24dBFS or -9dBFS.

Okay, we can get into the bit depth and sampling rate wars (this is why you brought up controversy).

I've yet seen or heard any difference between material being tracked at -9dBFS and -18dBFS.

My personal preference is -18dBFS. It's not right or wrong, but it's what I'm comfortable with, and I know if I have 30 tracks (and I do alot of times) in a song, I should not have to worry about the Master level.

BTW....

[JDWhite]

Wow,

Some really great answers. Thanks alot, and ty for the welcome to the forum. I think I found my new home. You guys have already nailed my first problem, and that is that I was pushing everything so hot that any plugins were doing exactly what you said they were, and that was clipping my tracks. I really appreciate all of your help. It is cool being here.

Brandon I will be buying your book.

I Look forward to speaking more with you guys. Can't wait to try this new info (to me) out.

Thanks again,

JD