Guitar Rig 2 vs Real, Expensive Recording Rig

[brandondrury]

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Guitar Rig 2 vs Real, Expensive Recording Rig Audio Files

As anyone who has read even ½ of one of my posts here knows, I've been highly critical of direct guitar recording for a while now. I've noticed that more and more talk has been centered around the dramatic improvements in direct guitar recording technology and I'm hearing this on tunes posted in Recording Reviews . So, I figured I would give it a spin in a head to head contest with a few of my amps.

Note: I'm not biased on this test. To be honest, I wanted to say “This $200 plugin replaces my entire amp collection”. I WANT to be able to make robo recordings with $2 in gear! Did it happen? I'll let you decide. I want to make it perfectly clear that this test was not a big deal. I probably should have played it tighter. I probably should have taken more time. I didn't really plan on making a shootout. Oh well, here goes.

Guitar – The guitar is an Agile Telecaster. Why Telecaster? Why not! I'm playing high gain rock stuff here. I realize a Telecaster is not the most obvious choice for this. Oh well. To make matters worse, these strings are robo old. To make matters even worse, you can hear just how poorly the intonation is out when I hit the higher chords. So what does this prove? Nothing! I'm not trying to prove anything. I was goofing around and not taking this too seriously. Maybe I should have restrung it. Maybe I'll do a better shootout with more direct guitar gadgets if people like this one.

Amp Simulator – Native Instruments Guitar Rig 2. Why only this one? Because it's the only one I have. Technically, I didn't really pursue this one anyway. It came with Komplete 3 which I purchased for the synths and samples. I normally am too busy pulling crap out of my highly raised nose to ever actually purchase a direct guitar product.

Amps – The amps in this contest were all my amps I own. Peavey 5150, Rivera Knucklehead, and my trusty '71 Marshall Superlead. I considered using my Fender Bronco also, but maybe I'll save that for the next one.

Cabinet – My trusty 1x12 former floor wedge on stage turned into Celestion G12H30 mega cabinet. I REALLY like this cabinet even though it looks like death. I don't use a grill! My Marshall JCM 800 4x12 cabinet has been collecting dust for some time now.

Mic – I used my Royer R121 with this. It's clear that if I wanted more fizz than this (for metal I definitely would) I would need to make some changes. With that said, I need to remember that my Mackie's tend to hype of electric guitars a little bit so guitars come out sounding a tad boring and a tad too smooth on computer speakers.

Preamp – I used my Trident S20 preamp. Not much to say there. Gain up. Done.

Converter - I used my Mytek AD96 converter on the mic'd signal. The direct guitars were tracked through the Hi-Z input in my Presonus Firestudio.

The Results: Scroll down.

[brandondrury]

#1 - Real 5150
#2 - JCM 800 simulator in Guitar Rig 2
#3 - Real 1971 Marshall Superlead 100 watt
#4 - Dual Rectifier simulator in Guitar Rig 2
#5 - Real Rivera Knucklehead set brighter
#6 - Real Rivera Knucklehead set darker
#7 - All 6 amps (12 total tracks) combined in a way that sounded best at the time.

- Does layering sound better?
People make a huge deal about layering electric guitars. Was their a dramatic improvement between #7 and any of the individual elements? I found the difference to be bigger on my studio monitors than on my computer speakers. I really liked blending the 5150 tracks and the Marshall Superlead tracks. They both seamed to be doing opposite things.

- Mid Scoop Confusion
People make such a big deal about "scooped mids" but the problem with this is it covers such a broad range. Guitar amps have tone controls that are voiced dramatically different than other amps. Metalheads typically grab the mid control and pull it way down. In this little example, the 5150 had it's mids on 10. Still at this setting it has far less in the boxy midrange than the Marshall Superlead or the Rivera when set to be darker. I thought this was interesting.

- How does Guitar Rig 2 compare to the real thing?
I would say that Guitar Rig 2 is not bad at all. I'd be curious to see how Guitar Rig 3, Amplitude, and Wave GTR 3 compare. I think that Guitar Rig 2 is fizzier than the rig I used, but they did not have a Royer R121 model in Guitar Rig 2. It may have been more "scientificeee" if I had used a 57 or 421 like the simulation ins Guitar Rig 2 did. Well, this wasn't science. I was comparing my way verses their way. This is the result for better or worse.

I was interested by the fact that the Telecaster sounded most Telecasterish through the DI thing. I could hear the strings more. I'm not sure what that means or what that is worth. I felt that the DI method had more fizz and a mudness to it. It's not exactly mud, but there is something kind of indistinct in the plugin that I didn't hear on any of the real amps.

With that said, I think that Guitar Rig is not a bad product for anyone who can't crank up their guitars or doesn't have all this expensive crap. I'm impressed. On the right album I could see myself using Guitar Rig without much question. I've certainly recorded worse guitar sounds!

In the end what is more important is what you think. So what do you think?

Brandon

[jd99gt]

Brandpn,
great job getting the site back up and running.
First things first-
I finally got my 5150 back from the shop and it sounds great, no gimmicks or special mods, just sounds brand new.

Now, I listened to all the recordings that you;ve made here. My favorites were the Real 5150 (#1), and The Rivera Knucklehead (#5).
As you may know, I have been recording direct for the last little while, using either my gnx3 or guitar rig/ amplitube/ impulses etc. While the sound of the digital modules are getting much better, they still lack a certain thickness and body that you get from a real tube amp. I think I was able to hear that too in your recording samples here.
I think I am going to do my own shootout with some of my equipment and let you guys be the judge. Here's the kicker, I will use impulses for everything. Even for the 5150, I will use only the preamp out direct into the fast track usb with an impulse.(its too late to crank up the amp anyway)!!
once again.
great job

[sunset]

ahh, Good thread Brandon. I kinda agree.

Due to budget etc I've been dragged kicking and screaming into hard disk recording - and now direct recording as well. Mannn, between Guitar Rig2, Amplitube2 and Amplitube Jimi Hendrix I've gotta say I've been baffled at how cool it can sound. It pretty unbeliveable, and like you said - it's certainly possible to sound a hell of a lot worse with amps/heads/mics etc!

Guess we've all just gotta just approach it like...these are just tools. Same as amp choice, speaker choice, mic choice...there's no right or wrong if it gets you where you;re going.

With a 3yo and (as of just this week) a newborn living in the house - and trying to finish all the guitars & bass for an upcoming album - I have pretty much no choice now! It's gotta be direct. I'll keep you posted with how it all goes.

[BushmasterM4]

Interesting on the 5150 and scooped mids. I recently bought a used 5150 412 cab. It needed some TLC (cosmetic), and after some cleaning and spraying the cab (in places) with truck bed liner, it looks great. Truck bed liner spray paint works pretty good on cabinet areas were the tolex is missing or torn. The torn parts I glue down first, then spray. Anyway, I use a Peavey JSX head and a Peavey XXX cab as my main amp. And I noticed when I plugged the 5150 cab into the JSX that the mids are way more reduced (scooped) compared to the XXX cab. Must be that "Metalhead" thing when Peavey designed the enclosure.
It was interesting the difference between the mids on these two cabs. I know both the XXX and 5150 use Sheffield speakers, not sure if they are the same.

[thesilentdrummer]

Awesome "shootout" (regardless of what you say). In my tally, I was able to pinpoint "fake" or "real" correctly, except for the Marshall amp (not including the mixed track, that was a low blow). Like you said, I could see the sims being useful on some songs, but i wouldn't reach for the sim first, if possible, that is.

[brandondrury]

The old Marshall is what it is. In the right circumstances, it's a big mean amp. In this situation, it wasn't the right choice.

Brandon

[lolzgreg]

5150 owned!

ahahaha

The knucklehead dark is real beast too!

DI still don't cut it for me.

-Greg

[brandondrury]

Maybe if I get sick of cussing this damn new server and fixing RecordingReview bugs, I'll slap some strings on my Jackson Kelly with EMG 81s and try to do a real metal thing with this.

The knucklehead dark is real beast too!

There are so many tones in that amp! It gets used on at least 80% of the sessions I do in one way or another. It's probably the best $600 I've ever spent in my life!

Brandon

[lolzgreg]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

It's probably the best $600 I've ever spent in my life!

Brandon

You got a good deal, ahah. Don't you ever fear that some of your sessions will start sounding a bit too similar if everyone's using your amp (despite tonal changes), especially since you swear by the dead center royer technique on the floor wedge?

-Greg