Good idea or bad idea?

[willj]

I was thinking about "installing" some condenser mics in my ceiling. I can see a bunch of reasons that this might not work but a couple that are really cool.

I thought the idea of a drummer coming and just setting up his drums in a certain spot with no mic stands cluttering up the joint was pretty neat. Not to mention the mics always being "ready to go".

With the very tip of the microphone being flush with the ceiling, that MAY kind of,, take the lowish ceiling height (7' 3")that i deal with out of the equation.

I dont know what to think. Somebody say something.

[Rockerdude]

I think every drum kit is different so is the array of cymbals and their location so having fixed mics might not work for every application.
I have the low celing too,I'm thinking of some acoustic pannels above the kit.
I was making my own snare samples yesterday and my engineer noticed my room has a slight flutter echo,how do you treat that? Deaden up the room more?

[venuestudio]

WillJ, the issue with installing the mic into the ceiling is that you are going to change the polar pattern of the mic from what it is to a slightly more 'half omni' pattern. Also you are going to create proximity issues that would be really hard to predict. Now that does not mean it would not sound good but again, really hard to know up front.

if I was going to do something like that I would start by installing some sort of enclosure into the ceiling. Could be something as simple as a bucket turned upside down. I would want something about 10-12 inches across and as deep as possible. Then attach a swiveling mic holder in the can. I would put acoustic foam into the enclosure to knock down the back splash. Remember that even cardioid mics pick up from the back (there are back lobes on almost all mics to some extent). Now you have a mic that can be pointed and at least addresses the acoustics of the space it is mounted in. As RD pointed out the positioning is the hard part unless the kit stays put. At a minimum I would mark the floor so you have a permanent reference for the pieces of the kit. At least that would be a starting point. Maybe the answer would be to mount the arms of a mic stand to the ceil so that you have a range of motion. That way no matter how the kit is set up you can get the mics placed.

RD that slap back can be addressed with acoustic treatment. Since Ethan Winer is a forum member he would be the best person to ask but adding acoustic foam I would think would help to slow down the flutter. You want to make the walls non-parallel (which would help) and foam on one or two walls. It really depends on how dead you want/need it. Again, Ethan is the guy to ask.

[willj]

WillJ, the issue with installing the mic into the ceiling is that you are going to change the polar pattern of the mic from what it is to a slightly more 'half omni' pattern. Also you are going to create proximity issues that would be really hard to predict. Now that does not mean it would not sound good but again, really hard to know up front.

Hmmm I see.Well i guess the predictability would come with time, or maybe you were talking about short term.

I wouldnt wanna mess with the response of the microphone thats for sure.

Ok, kinda just sounds like a dumb idea that is probably a lot more trouble than its worth.

I have the low celing too,I'm thinking of some acoustic pannels above the kit.

Blows to give up more height though. Can you lower the floor or raise the ceiling.

[Rockerdude]

Would something like this work?With like a 2'x2' piece of foam,would that help with taming the reflections?Attachment 9545

[Rockerdude]

kinda looks ghetto....lol.......but if it works.

[venuestudio]

I think that would help. It is the same idea behind the sE reflexion without the additional stiffener on the back. You might want to add a slightly stiffer but absorbent material behind, the idea is 'shades' of absorption. The thinner stuff for high frequency and thicker for low frequency.

[willj]

Yeah thats awesome dude. Im always trying to pull stunts like that.

I have the most absorbent ceiling tiles i could get with insulation above.
I wrap the lead vox mic like that all the time with foam. Nice and tight to it though.

You made me want md 421's real bad too.

[brandondrury]

If I lost the ability to place overheads, I'm not sure what I'd do, but it wouldn't be good.

I think the permanent mic thing make sense for room mics in big ass studios. (I'm pretty sure Blackbird has a few of these.) However, for anything with a 7' ceiling, I don't think I would bother.

Brandon

[jay jay]

I had them mounted before in my "basement studio" in a XY config over my drum kit.
They where where I would put the mics on stands. It was a suspended ceiling. I used one of those mounts that hold 2 mics in an XY. I even ran the wires through the ceiling and came down at the wall. Looked nice and clean.

This was on my kit that did not move, so the spot was right.
I refinished the basement and hung some treatment over the drums, so the mics went back on a stand.
Treatment was a huge improvement in sound from the overheads.

[bozmillar]

Funny, I was actually thinking about this the other day, mountin PZM mics in the ceiling. My thought was actually to do it in the two corners and use those as room mics. I think the idea could work, but I wouldn't use it as a replacement for overheads.

[willj]

I dont know what to think Boz. It could be a neat idea if you could get the kit set up accurately every time. Nice and clean ya know?

I wont be trying to pull this one off unless something REALLY solid comes along, but man i just keep picturing the kit setting there with no cables and stands around all whilst getting hammered with ear candy.

[willj]

It all started when i began thinking about mounting a cheap condenser up there for a talk back mic.

[bozmillar]

I dont know what to think Boz. It could be a neat idea if you could get the kit set up accurately every time. Nice and clean ya know?

I wont be trying to pull this one off unless something REALLY solid comes along, but man i just keep picturing the kit setting there with no cables and stands around all whilst getting hammered with ear candy.

It really actually could work well. you'll get less of the room sound by having the mic next to a boundary like that. You'll get even less room sound if you put it in a corner. It's something that I think could be a good asset to any recording studio, I just know I probably won't ever do it, mostly out of laziness.

Why don't you experiment with some PZM mics? At least you can try it and see how it sounds before doing some installation.

[willj]

Why do you suggest PZM's? I dont have any by the way.

[willj]

Hey Boz what do ya say we chat back and forth tonight till we BOTH make it to 1000 posts.

[paul999]

I am constantly tweeking the position of my O.H. mics. I can't imagine giving up this control.

[willj]

Not to mention, it'd be pretty tough to otrf. lol Late night for you bud?

[paul999]

Yeah ORTF would be tough. Late night but a satisfying day.

[garageband]

I was at a place called the "Jam Crib" a couple times (rental rehearsal hall). They had a couple AT choir mics hanging off the ceiling and fed into a Mackie mixer and into a Masterlink. Sounded like ass.

[TonyB]

I was at a place called the "Jam Crib" a couple times (rental rehearsal hall). They had a couple AT choir mics hanging off the ceiling and fed into a Mackie mixer and into a Masterlink. Sounded like ass.