General Compressor Settings For Metal Snare?

[Ruprect]

Greetings folks! So lately I've really been trying to hone in my snare drum sound. I mainly use Superior 2.0 with the Avatar Kit, and I'm getting some pretty solid stuff, but I'm just wondering how you guys and gals go about getting a snare sound with a nice snappy crack to it. TELL ME YOUR DARKEST SECRETS!!! Muahahahahahahaha!

[garageband]

OK, first we expect pictures from you. Yes, you, R.

I don't know how "dark" or "edgy" or "gritty" this is but I've gotten to the point where I want to track the snare through a fairly aggressive compressor (I dunno, like a LA-3A or something) and not muck around with trying to "flavor-compress" it later in the Plug-In Land of Make-Believe. You've noticed that using those tools takes the "crack" out almost right away. This is real bad news for metal snares that are blessed with little in the way of "crack" to begin with. I've got this mid-80s COS Premier 14x6.5 with an Evans reverse dot on it. While it can punch holes in concrete, it's woefully short on "crack". I also have a 66 Slingerland 6-lug 14x5.5 3-ply maple w/ reinforcement rings, white Remo Ambassador and that thing is nothing but "crack".

Basically what you are doing is making the compressor itself "crack" by thwacking it with the transient and adjusting it make "that" noise, which will become part of the drum sound. You probably can do it with an ITB compressor but it usually goes to mush when I try it that way. Finding just that right plug could be a life's work, I suppose.

[the evil]

if you are using superior you can layer 2 snares together, one for the pow and one for thee crack... but i like garagebands idea, i also use an aggressive compressor. i also do a good amount of limiting a lot of the time, and then if thats still not doing it i might do some parallel compression. also you can try using a transient designer to help bring out the crack.

[paul999]

Snappy snare for me comes from a transient designer. A good free one is still wells transient monster. You get a ton of snap. I've been guilty of getting too much snap and have started using a small notch of eq on the exact spot I boost (5-10k on an API 550b works well). Don't forget it is easy to make your snare sound small with too much snap

[bozmillar]

Brandon had a video where he had a couple limiters in series on his drum bus that really brought out the crack in the snare. He must have made it after being awake for a few days because I couldn't for the life of me follow what he was doing, but I do know the end result sounded good.

[PunkGuy]

I think this comes down to choosing the right snare to begin with. I am ultra picky about what snare drums I like and don't like. Being a real drummer (aka punk rock drummer) I need a snare that cracks through the mix and doesn't turn to mush or St. Anger when I compress and limit. Since metal drummers are just drummers who gave up on punk rock because it was too hard for them to play I may be able to be of some assistance here.

:stirringthepot:

you can try using a transient designer to help bring out the crack.

Snappy snare for me comes from a transient designer.

I'm not so hot on transient designers. I will admit I used one the other day... on the subs (only) on my bass drum and I think it did what I wanted it to do. But to me using a transient designer to bring out snap and crack just sounds too harsh and strange to my ears. Does the average listener think the same thing? I have no idea, but I'm still not using them on snare drums anytime soon.

Anyway, I use BFD2, and fortunately they have an OC Drums and Percussion snare drum on there. The rest go to mush or are annoying in my experience. I just dial down the decay until it is pretty short, knowing that smashing the thing will bring the ring in to the right level. I also tune it a bit higher than some might tune it, which really brings out the crack.

Now if you want the ultra shortcut method just have it trigger all rimshots except on rolls and most fills. I know some good punkrock drummers who were skilled enough to do this even on real drums: Guttermouth - Diamond studded bumble bee - YouTube. I suppose this is one of those love it or hate it things, but it definitely brings the crack out.



Oh yes, I almost forgot about the compressor--probably because it doens't make much difference once the snare is right. It's sort of like compressing a bass: if the track is good I could use just about any compressor on it and it would turn out well enough. OK that is probably an exaggeration, but still... I'd go for something transparent, because let's be honest: if you are using a compressor for character on a snare it means that the snare probably doesn't have the tone you wanted from the start. If I'm not using multiband (which I don't use on my snare, except to high pass,) I usually reach for the "Tube Compressor" on Audition 3.0. But more often than not I will high pass the snare and smash it into the master compressor/limiter on the same buss as most everything else besides vocals and cymbals.

[fHumble fHingaz]

Now if you want the ultra shortcut method just have it trigger all rimshots except on rolls and most fills.

I was going to suggest the same thing!

[garageband]

Snappy snare for me comes from a transient designer.

Aren't you just using this to replace snap lost by compression? A good solution would seem to be a technique that doesn't lose it to begin with, negating the need to reconstruct it.

[DLChuckles]

I need a snare that cracks through the mix and doesn't turn to mush or St. Anger

Am I the only one in the world who loves the shit our of the St. Anger snare (though I usually prefer other sounds for most projects)? I mean really, why is it so hated?

P.S. Punkguy, I realize you only bring it up to illustrate a point. I couldn't resist asking, though.

[garageband]

Am I the only one in the world who loves the shit our of the St. Anger snare (though I usually prefer other sounds for most projects)? I mean really, why is it so hated?

Lars is annoying, that's most of it.

[PunkGuy]

Am I the only one in the world who loves the shit our of the St. Anger snare (though I usually prefer other sounds for most projects)? I mean really, why is it so hated?

P.S. Punkguy, I realize you only bring it up to illustrate a point. I couldn't resist asking, though.

Lol, you know before I got into recording I thought that tone was pretty cool. I still don't think it's bad, but I do think it's overkill. Maybe if the drums were a bit lower in that mix and the guitars were more upfront the ringing wouldn't seem so long and loud. But I am an advocate of ringing snare drums. I think it's a great way to get the snare heard when the crack of the snare isn't "loud enough" in the mix, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

[Ruprect]

OK, first we expect pictures from you. Yes, you, R.

I should have been more specific with this post. I'm ONLY using superior drummer at this point. However, all of these tactics will definitely come in handy in the future I'm sure. Thanks for the feedback folks!

[garageband]

I should have been more specific with this post. I'm ONLY using superior drummer at this point. However, all of these tactics will definitely come in handy in the future I'm sure. Thanks for the feedback folks!

You're missing my point. As the Assistant to the Enthroned Ruler, the standards for contribution are a little higher. Pictures, clips, links, jokes - the whole shooting match. We want stuff.

[IMF OnSite Recording]

I usually use parallel compression... and these are usually my settings:

4-6:1 ratio, ~20ms attack ~100ms release.. threshold down to where it's whacking around -12 off. That then get's hit by a couple db off a brickwall... and then by another by 4-6 at the music bus. I really let that parallel transient skyrocket. If done right it and mixed in, it will cut like a sword.

The thing about the attack is that you (while reducing around -12 db) want to sweep around the attack from 10-30ms until you get that sweet spot smack sound. That's what you want spiking through before the comp kicks in. I never really liked an attack any faster because then it gets too ticky or whatever.. I don'

[brandondrury]

You're missing my point. As the Assistant to the Enthroned Ruler, the standards for contribution are a little higher. Pictures, clips, links, jokes - the whole shooting match. We want stuff.

If you knew Ruprect your standards would drop considerably.

In all seriousness, that stuff is on the way. Ruprect is posting every once in a while (mostly on his own time) because he has his face buried in Premiere editing more of those videos that Boz won't be able to follow.

With all that said I appreciate you riding his ass when I'm too swamped to do the job properly myself.

Brandon

[DLChuckles]

Lars is annoying, that's most of it.

No argument here. haha

[the evil]

transient designers come in very handy when you have a ringing snare or high hat bleed, i know we are talking about a trigger in this scenario though. I can take that ring out and then compress it or vice versa... i hate hearing a ring in the snare with a few very limited exceptions. the reason i dont use a rim shot is because i like to add rimshots for accents and such thru a song and i have found it to be distracting if evry one has a rimshot, but for a wuick technique it does work. another thing to try is to gate it, sometimes the gate opening fast makes the crack a little bit harder but its like you are adding an artifact and it can be too much depending on the the hit, this is also true with compression of the back of the hit. if you gate the back where you lose most of the snare tail, then the compression is working more on the crack and less on the entire snare hit. this can work well if you like the snare then make a send and just work on bringin out the crack, gates, transient designer, compression, limiter, etc., instead of messing with the entire snare hit

[EnSkorSang]

I have next to 0 experience with metal snares, but when dealing with VST instruments, be it drums or whatever, I always end up adding noise to the tracks to make the sit better. It can be from distortion plugin-thing, one of those 'vintage' style plugins which have way too much hiss/noise, or more often than not either Waves' tape machine or running it out to either my ancient dbx 118 or to my 'gold mike' preamp and turning it all the way up.

I've always added noise without really thinking about why...it just made it site better. I gave a little thought to it when answering this thread and my conclusion is that most of the other tracks are recorded in less-than-ideal rooms, with less-than-ideal equipment and occasionally even less-than-ideal background noise.
VST instruments on the other hand are recorded in AMAZING rooms with AMAZING equipment. They sound absolutely pristine and are recorded to fill your speakers (when generally you just want them to fill a space in the mix). So I must be battling to make them sound as shitty as the rest of my tracks :P

[PunkGuy]

I have next to 0 experience with metal snares, but when dealing with VST instruments, be it drums or whatever, I always end up adding noise to the tracks to make the sit better. It can be from distortion plugin-thing, one of those 'vintage' style plugins which have way too much hiss/noise, or more often than not either Waves' tape machine or running it out to either my ancient dbx 118 or to my 'gold mike' preamp and turning it all the way up.

I've always added noise without really thinking about why...it just made it site better. I gave a little thought to it when answering this thread and my conclusion is that most of the other tracks are recorded in less-than-ideal rooms, with less-than-ideal equipment and occasionally even less-than-ideal background noise.
VST instruments on the other hand are recorded in AMAZING rooms with AMAZING equipment. They sound absolutely pristine and are recorded to fill your speakers (when generally you just want them to fill a space in the mix). So I must be battling to make them sound as shitty as the rest of my tracks :P

I don't think it's only drums. I have Guitar Rig and I have to have so many freaking slots of gear to make it sound like I want it's crazy. I think the "perfection," isolation, dryness, digitalness, whatever of vst/i make it so that you need to do all sorts of stuff to it to make it sound right.