EQing - How do you start?

[BORNintoMUSIC]

I'm 6 months new to the audio engineering aspect of music... and I've found that I love it!!! I use cubase and have learned so much about it, but I know I still have a lot to learn.

So the reason I started this post is to see how people start EQing their music before they add compression or any type of effect. From what I've gather off the internet and in books, it seems as though you should have a good EQ / mix before anything else.

Because I know EQing is (and audio engineering as a whole) subjective, just throw in tips on how you EQ the music you play. Or maybe some worthwhile suggestions.

One big thing that I have trouble with is EQing the guitars in our band. We (Me and the other guitarst) find ourselves playing in the same "register" of sound. So when we hear the recording it sounds messy and unpleasant to listen to.

Thanks,
Brandon

[DT Chris]

I have found at my (elementary) level, that EQ'ing is an adjusted thing through each stage of creating the mix.

For example, I can EQ my vocal or backup vocal tracks each to sound great, then get back to the overall mix and have to adjust it again. This goes the same for all other instruments as well. Slight tweaks.

I'm thinking this is again true once any effects are added. Sometimes a reverb or chorus will 'fill out' a track, that may or may not cause desired consequences.

I wonder if I'm correct in this statement...

As far as guitars, I'm learning that guitars need to be a lot thinner in the mix than I would have thought. When I add the bass part, suddenly they don't sound so thin anymore, as the bass has made up that part of the frequencies I have cut out. If I don't EQ the bottom freqs of the guitars (starting with a low-pass filter), then the sounds overlap and start to "boom" or 'mud' up the mix.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I'm starting to 'hear' what's happening now, and slowly learning the effects each frequency in the range does.

[brandondrury]

So the reason I started this post is to see how people start EQing their music before they add compression or any type of effect.

The first question is: Does this track need EQ?

For everything but drums, the second question is "What did I screw up during tracking to cause me to play Mr. FixIt now?".

After I've established that I did screw up in tracking or I've established in order to get the individual instruments to cram together into the mix I need to EQ, I say "What is the problem frequency?". I then, with my voice go "aaahhhhh" or "iiiiiiiiii" or whatever to find what needs to be removed.

Then I grab a parametric EQ, crank up the gain to boost like 10dB on one of the bands and sweep through the frequencies until I find the "aahhhhh" or "iiiii" sound I want to get ride of on a specific instrument. Of course, I've made the problem worse by boosting the signal 10dB and sweeping so now that I've indentified the signal, I need to cut it by X dB. Maybe 1 or 2. Maybe 10 or 20dB. I just use my ears.

That's the gist of it. I'll add a big section on this in my book.

One big thing that I have trouble with is EQing the guitars in our band. We (Me and the other guitarst) find ourselves playing in the same "register" of sound. So when we hear the recording it sounds messy and unpleasant to listen to.

If I have to EQ my guitars, I definitely screwed up during tracking. It happens. You should obsess about getting a tone that excited you on the recording while you are tracking. EQ is not the solution for poor guitar tone. Most big mixer guys will immediately re-amp and forget trying to "fix" the tone...simply because in nearly all cases, you don't fix guitar tone with EQ.

Are you guys playing tightly? Are you playing the same parts or different parts? Can you attach an mp3 clip? I'd like to hear it.

If you are playing different parts in the same register, you already know that it's going to be a mess. You have to "arrange" the song to sound good. So if you are doing X part and the other dude is doing Y part and they are clashing, someone needs to give. The easiest solution is to make one person go up an octave. Usually the lead guy goes up an octave. If you don't like that, have the rythm guy go up an octave.

Get back to me.

Brandon

[BORNintoMUSIC]

Brandon thanks! This was extremely helpful.

Then I grab a parametric EQ, crank up the gain to boost like 10dB on one of the bands and sweep through the frequencies until I find the "aahhhhh" or "iiiii" sound I want to get ride of on a specific instrument. Of course, I've made the problem worse by boosting the signal 10dB and sweeping so now that I've indentified the signal, I need to cut it by X dB. Maybe 1 or 2. Maybe 10 or 20dB. I just use my ears.

I never thought about doing this, but it makes perfect sense. I'm going to try this as soon as I get off work.

f I have to EQ my guitars, I definitely screwed up during tracking. It happens. You should obsess about getting a tone that excited you on the recording while you are tracking. EQ is not the solution for poor guitar tone. Most big mixer guys will immediately re-amp and forget trying to "fix" the tone...simply because in nearly all cases, you don't fix guitar tone with EQ.

What do you mean exactly when you say "tracking"? Is that when you set the appropriate EQ's in the mixer before recording?

As far as arrangement is concerned, I think we will resort to playing at different octaves. As far as a MP3 is concerned, I put one of our songs up in the review section.

The Pot Song

Thanks for your help!
I will comment more later

[brandondrury]

What do you mean exactly when you say "tracking"?

Tracking is the process before mixing. It's the actual laying down the tracks. It's the capturing of performances.

Is that when you set the appropriate EQ's in the mixer before recording?

No, because if I recorded the instruments properly there would be no need for EQ during tracking or during mixing. If the amps sound good (which they had better) there is no reason why I should need to rely on equalization. Granted, sometimes I do mess this up, but it shouldn't occur often.

Brandon

[BORNintoMUSIC]

No, because if I recorded the instruments properly there would be no need for EQ during tracking or during mixing. If the amps sound good (which they had better) there is no reason why I should need to rely on equalization. Granted, sometimes I do mess this up, but it shouldn't occur often.

We are going directly from each guitar amp into a mixer. So how else do I record properly?

[brandondrury]

We are going directly from each guitar amp into a mixer.

I assume you are using a microphone, right.

So how else do I record properly?

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.

[BORNintoMUSIC]

I assume you are using a microphone, right.

Well my amp for instance has two XLR outs on the amp. So I just take an XLR cable and run it directly to the XLR in on the mixer. The other guitarist setup is slightly different but similar. He has a quarter inch line out, in which I take a quarter inch cable directly from the amp to the mixer. So the only microphones that are recording is the vocal mic and the 3 drum mics.

[DogpitStudios]

I wouldn't run the xlr cables and quarter inch ones out of the amps into a mixer. I'd record the entire thing separately by starting with the drums. I don't know what three mics they are but close micing isn't much of a possibility.

Recorderman's drum micing method:

-set up one mic dirrectly over the center of the snare drum and pointing at the center about two stick lengths (2-3 feet depending on preference-I prefer closer distances)

-Tape an end of a piece of string in the center of the snare drum. Then extend that same string up to the capsule of the first mic and back down to the center of the bass drum. The string should now be about 2-3 times the distance between the snare and overhead. Tape the other end of the string to the bass drum and cut the string.

-Now place the second mic over the drummers right shoulder (opposite shoulder if hes a lefty)

-pull the strings middle in the dirrection of the second mic and put the capsule of the mic anywhere where it can touch the string. Face it towards the bass drums center.

This trick helps you get a lot of drums in the sound and less cymbals. It also keeps the bass drum and snare in the center of the mix. You can apply that other mic to the bass drum or snare if desired.

I'd also make sure each drum is tuned before doing this. It would take too much effort to explain how to do this here and it will still be hard to understand.

Now try setting up what ever dynamic you have a few inches away from a guitar cab that is producing sound out of the speaker. I'd face it at the center to start and then swing it alone the side of the cone in either dirrection while recording what you do or listening in an isolated room and finding what ever place you think sounds good and strong. I'd record the clean and distorted parts seperatly.

Once you do all this right we'll talk about EQ

[brandondrury]

I wouldn't run the xlr cables and quarter inch ones out of the amps into a mixer. I'd record the entire thing separately by starting with the drums

I'm not a fan of direct guitars. I'm a big fan of guitar speakers and air.

I think there can be some great things that happen when everyone plays together in the same room. I think the modern "everything seperate" has it's down sides. There is no reason to expect higher fidelity or a more intense music experience by seperating everything unless the band is too sloppy to play together.

Brandon

[DogpitStudios]

The plus to playing seperatly is that all the other members can listen to the one recording and criticize making sure everything is perfect. That and the fact that since all instruments are isolated you can EQ with out worrying about bleed. On the other hand, on every jazz or funk recording I've ever done I put everyone right next to each other and record them all at the same time. Those styles of music kind of require that jam session type of vibe.

Ben

[thesilentdrummer]

For everything but drums

So what do you look for in drum EQ?? I am interested to learn more about EQ, as that is the aspect of mixing I have generally ignored.

[brandondrury]

The plus to playing seperatly is that all the other members can listen to the one recording and criticize making sure everything is perfect.

There's that "P" word again. Just playing the devil's advocate, but what if the "perfect' take is the band feeding off of each other in the live setting?

While there is no doubt that the one at a time method will sound closer to robotic, what if a certain band / song sounds perfect with a more natural state? What if a song sounds better with a variation in bpm?

[brandondrury]

So what do you look for in drum EQ??

In the EQ? nothing. I only look at the sound of drums in the monitors I do whatever I need to get what I want. This could be a billion things.

Metal bands want lots of click in their kick drum. I'll slap as much upper mids or highs as needed to get it.

Listen to my stupid mess I put up on Recording Reviews. Strength In Numbers I have no idea how much high end I added to that kick drum (during the guitar parts) In fact, I remember I boosted the click in one EQ X amount. Just to make sure I wouldn't mix with my eyes, I added a second EQ and boosted the crap out of the high end and upper mids again. This is not the "proper" way to mix, but I'm not a British butler. I know the rules so therefore I can break them at will! That was the kick drum sound I wanted!

Some snare drums require lots of meat. That's where 250 Hz fun comes in.

In more "hifi" sounding drums call for the entire drum bus to be nuked at 530Hz. Other drums don't require this at all. I have example I can upload if you want.

Some songs / styles call from compressing the snare to the point that it is nothing more than a click sound with reverb. That was a big deal in the 80s but makes it's way onto modern metal records, from time to time.


The drummer has SOOO much control in his drum sound. For example, I need the drummer to give me a loud snare most of the time. However, I've done mixes on songs where the snare totally dominated the overheads but then another more rocking song in that same session the snare was very balanced.

In the first example, I hit the overheads with a fast attack and release to tame the snare down somewhat and bring up the hihat and such.

On the second example, I didn't compress/limit the overheads.

Both resulted in dramatically different tones. See what I mean? The quiet song with the super loud snare just wasn't right for the song in it's natural state.

The effects of reverb and/or room sounds is outrageous on a mix. When drums should should dry, the rules are totally different than drums that have noticeble reverb decay.

Brandon

[thesilentdrummer]

Cool! Thanks for the tips.