DRUMS - Big Rooms vs. Small Rooms

[Punker 96]

Hey everyone,

My question pertains to recording drums and in what room they would benefit the most in the recording. Now, just to get rid of any confusion I have recorded drums before (I have learned a lot more about recording drums since my last experience however) and I am familiar with mic placement and such things. The demo I recorded previous to this was done in a small, dead room with a lot of acoustic treatment. Personally, I didn't like the sound so much, but that very much could have been a result of inexperience in the past.

So this time around I have a few more options, I'd like to know which would give me pleasing results.

Option #1 is simply my garage. It a average sized garage (not your double door rich man's garage or anything special) with roughly the highest point in the ceiling being around 15 feet, cement floors, and minimal acoustic treatment (except for insulation in the roof/select walls).

Option #2 is a church hall conveniently right across the street from my house. It is a much larger room with a very unique shape. A large open room with a lot of space to move around (the room is in sort of a wide-open, large diamond shape) with an impressive drop down ceiling that raises to two separate high points on either side. I'm expecting a substantial increase in reverb obviously.

I know you can't tell me straight up what the best sound will be, and I do understand this will take some experimenting. So all I really wanna know is what you guys think the benefits and downsides of each will end up being, and what your recommendations are in term of what you think you would help, not hinder my recording. It's between the largest church hall, the medium sized garage, or possibly even the small dead room I used before (in case there is a way that sound could possibly be improved in that situation).

Sorry for the long post. I know I write WAY too much!

[Bigduggieface]

It seems to me that in your particular case, the issue is not necessarily whether one room is bigger than the other, but which ultimately helps you get the best possible drum sound.

I've had the experience (or maybe misfortune) of recording drums in every conceivable space. From tiny unfinished basements to pro recording studios. I've been in tiny rooms that resulted in a great, clean, present drum sound. It depends on the sound you're going for.

The size of the room can be largely irrelevant if you are able to acoustically treat it, but this doesn't seem like an option for you.

My advice is to have a good critical listen to each environment. Go into each room beforehand with a friend and a snare drum. Have him/her whack the snare while you walk around and listen carefully to how it interacts with the room's reflections. Listen close up, 5 feet away, and 20 feet away. Even clapping your hands can help you determine the room's sound.

If they sound too 'roomy' or reverberant, consider bringing in some carpets to soften any reflective flooring, or blankets for the walls. It doesn't need to look pretty if it sounds good.

If the room's too dead, try standing some plywood, glass, or other surfaces against the wall. Remember that if the room is too small, you can cheat by adding a bit of reverb, but it's tough to take natural reverb away. Too much 'live' reverb can make the drums sound too distant.

[Punker 96]

Originally Posted by Bigduggieface

It doesn't need to look pretty if it sounds good.

Ah, I agree that is oh so true! Just because one person may have access to a room in an expensive studio with costly acoustic treatments in place to alter the sound, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't get a great sound in someone's garage if it is set up properly. After all, you're recording the audio. Who could care less where it was recorded, just as long as it's pleasing to the ear.

Thanks for the advice! I'm definitely going to have to test out each of the rooms the next time my drummer is available though. I had planned on doing this already, but I'm glad you clarified it as a solid technique to use.

Here's a question however. In your opinion, what if I was to use the church hall for example and say it had a large helping of natural reverb, more than desired. If I was to set up some sort of acoustic dampening surrounding the drummer and his kit while recording, is this really going to have a substantial enough effect to get a sound with tamed reverb in a room so large? And what about using more spot mics on the kit rather than ambient or distant mics? Will this help cut down the possibility of getting too much added reverb in a recording?

[Vulconizer]

Originally Posted by Punker 96

what about using more spot mics on the kit rather than ambient or distant mics? Will this help cut down the possibility of getting too much added reverb in a recording?

I am pretty sure it would. Mix in the room mics to taste along with the close mics to get what your wanting to hear with the rest of the mix.

Experiment.

[millett513]

I would go with the small acoustically treated room, or the church hall. But thats just me. To me, it seems like a garage would echo to much.

[brandondrury]

Remember that if the room is too small, you can cheat by adding a bit of reverb, but it's tough to take natural reverb away.

While you can't take natural reverb away, you can't really add it either. You can add fake reverb, but it ain't even in the same ballpark when it comes to drums. That's my opinion anyway.

Too much 'live' reverb can make the drums sound too distant.

I would make sure to engineer in such a way that you have options in the mix. I've recorded drums in insanely live rooms and have come out just fine because I made sure I had options when mixing. The close mics will pretty much ignore the excessive decay times. Just make sure your overheads aren't excessively ambiant.

In your opinion, what if I was to use the church hall for example and say it had a large helping of natural reverb, more than desired.

"A large helping of reverb" needs to be more specific. Are you talking about the room itself is too live or are you talking about the actual decay time of the room is too long. An untreated garage would be pretty damn live. A huge Catholic church wouldn't be as live sounding but would have a 4+ second decay time resulting in a bunch of mud.

I wouldn't ever want to record drums in a facility with a 4 second decay time unless I was doing something really off the way. However a really live room with under 1 second of decay time is what I'd want for most rock projects.

You don't need a measurement device for this. You simply need to clap your hands a few times and listen.

If I was to set up some sort of acoustic dampening surrounding the drummer and his kit while recording, is this really going to have a substantial enough effect to get a sound with tamed reverb in a room so large?

It won't tame the room necessarily, but it would inhibit the ability of the excessive room sound to get into the mics.

And what about using more spot mics on the kit rather than ambient or distant mics?

All of the above. I got to record in a big room recently. It was great. I loved it! I used all close mics. Overheads that were closer than what I use in my room here at home. I had a mic about 10' out in front of the kit and I had a room mic which was more like 20' from the kit with a 4x12 cabinet (unused) in between the mic and the drums to block the direct signal.

If it were me, I'd avoid the small dead room unless there was just something really pleasing about it. (I doubt it). I HATE HATE HATE dead rooms for drums. I suspect that if you want a really lively rock drum sound, the garage is gonna do it.

I'd put up blankets on walls that are within 6 feet of the drum kit (if any). If I had the money, I'd go buy $100 in plywood from the hardware store and throw it all over the room. Wood is generally preferred to concrete.

The church may be awesome. It's hard to say without hearing it.

Brandon