Drum Mic Choices - different approach

[danielvds]

As I've only technically made 1 recording in a studio environment, I can't judge my 'experimentation-threshold', however this is what I plan on doing in my next recording (Drums)- for the song "Handbags & Gladrags - Stereophonics":

• Kick Drum - AKG D112 (punchy, deep)
• Snare Top - SM57
• Snare Bottom - AKG C414B-XLS
• Hihats - sE1A
• Left Tom - SM57
• Right Tom - SM57
• Floor Tom - SM57
• Overheads - 2x AKG C1000s (XY Config, though I will test both)
• Ambient Mic - AKG C414B-XLS

I have the following available to me:
2x AKG C414B XLS
4x AKG C1000s
4x Shure SM57
3x Shure SM58
1x SE Electronics SE1a
1x SE Electronics ICIS
1x AKG D112
3x AKG C418
1x SE Electronics SE2200a (not sure if college still has this)
x1 MXL 604 (could be a diff MXL one :\)

I was thinking, perhaps I could use the sE2200a as an under-snare mic with the -10dB pad switch, and the two C414s as ambient mics in stereo. If the MXL is the 604, how would this be under a snare?

The kit on this song is pretty tight on the kick and hi-hats, but the toms and cymbals are more open. I've never tried the C418s before, I hear they are dark, which could be useful for the toms, however apparently they allow too much spill (despite their "rejection of other instruments" feat.)

So, any placement recommendations? Try different mic choices? Rough descriptions of the sounds delivered by the C1000s for cymbals, Toms for C418s (or even under snare??), sE2200a under snare? Obv, I know what the other mics sound like already as I've dealt with them before.

Disclaimer: This is college coursework, so I can only ask of you guys, what you would do, and how you think the mics would sound. I will still make my own decisions at the end, and most probably try several setups (or all at once if applicable).

[garageband]

Should be just fine.

[danielvds]

If you mean my initial plan should be fine, in that case, how would I get the ambient mic into the mix?- seeing as its mono. ADT?

If you mean, try it all out, its all there for you- fair enough (apart from the above)

Slightly more in general, whats your opinion on the C418?

[garageband]

Yeah, it's a plan. Don't know the C418 - I don't care for AKGs in general. The room mic is just one to keep in your back pocket in case you need it. Likely, you won't use it. I wouldn't get too worried about panning assignment in the abstract. That mic can be useful to center the stereo image.

Careful not to worry too much about the mic models. It's more important to get the room, the mic placement and drums themselves dialed in.

[danielvds]

OK so I got in the studio today, took a while to set up everything (seriously, lack of stands, broken stands, not enough mic clips- yet several hundred thousand pounds worth of equipment, protools setup etc.) I didn't actually have time to get one take recorded which is pretty shocking- luckily there's room for mistakes at college.

I was able to leave my setup as nobody will be recording drums. Most probably the room mic stand will be used, perhaps some space made for a guitar amp, and all the cables will be unplugged from the junction box. No worries tbh. The XY configuration is definately something I will be using still. These are my simplified ammendments:

Bass Drum: AKG D112
Snare Top: SM57
Snare Bottom: AKG C414
Left Tom: C418
Right Tom: C418
Floor Tom: SM57
Hihat: sE1A
Left Overhead: AKG C1000S
Right Overhead: AKG C1000S
Room Mic: sE2200A

[paul999]

I'd use the 414's as over heads or 2 sm 57's instead of c1000's

[danielvds]

SM57's don't really go well as overheads (judging by their frequency response). Now as I've never tried this, it's something to have a go at but I would prefer to use a condenser in this project.

The C1000's, I have never used before, so it's testing stuff out. The problem with the c414s is that I'm gonna use one as a snare resonant mic and the other is still free... I'm using the C1000s because they capture cymbals quite nicely and I'm miking up every drum so as for the lower end, that's covered (as well as the room mic if I want a bit of blending/spill- which is a 1" condenser).

Question: Which is the PROPER way to do an XY setup? Do you overlap the mics so that the capsules nearly touch on the side? or do you position them so that they nearly touch diagonally and are parallel to each other? Here's a photo of what I've done, is it right?

[garageband]

If those are front-address mics, that's correct.

SM57's don't really go well as overheads (judging by their frequency response).

Two things. They do, actually. It's a bit of a vintage, old-fashioned sound (kinda rockabilly to my ears), but not bad at all. Do yourself a favor and ignore frequency response charts of microphones. They don't really tell you what you need to know about where or when or how to use a certain microphone and only give the vaguest idea of how it might sound.

[venuestudio]

I am with Paul on overheads, I would put up the 414's and use a pair of 57s for top and bottom of the snare. C1000 would go out 6-10 feet X/Y as a stereo room mics.

Spec's on mics don't mean much of anything other than giving you a general feel for bandwidth and possibly anomolies in the frequency response and where they might be found. It has nothing to do with how they sound, only your ears can tell you that. You would be amazed at what the lowly 57 sounds good on...

[danielvds]

Here's some of my ideas. Which would work?, which wouldn't at all? which is your favorite (if any)? and finally, could I change any to work better?

1. C414s in ORTF setup.
2. C414s in Spaced Pair setup.
3. C1000S' in XY setup and 1x C414 under snare.
4. C414s in Spaced Pair, and C1000s' as Room mics in XY above drummers head facing kit.

To me, the ORTF setup (better phase coherency than spaced) and the C414s Spaced w/ C1000s as XY room mics sound like the best options. The 3rd one being my initial plan.

Pictures for each are attached (: - I can change these if I've got the middle line concepts wrong- all a learning process.

EDIT: The C414s have multiple polar patterns including Super and Hyper Cardioid. Would it be useful to use these in any of the setups or just keep it cardioid? The room is acoustically treated btw.