Drum kit with 2 overheads ONLY

[ankursamtaney]

Too many basic questions too frequently from me; sorry!

I'm sure the forum already has answers to this somewhere, but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for, and too lazy to dig any deeper so here goes:

When using 2 OHs to capture a stereo image of the drums, I've heard of different mic placement techniques from different people. Have tried only 1 so far, but have one question irrespective of the placement.

Given that you want to pan the 2 mics left and right (hard or otherwise), how do you possibly get a centered sound for the snare. I'd imagine the kick would be centered, coz it is at the centre of the kit. But to have <<hi hats, left crash and left tom>> slightly to the left in the stereo field, and the <<right tom, floor tom, right crash and ride>> slightly to the right, and the snare right in the centre (as if it were mono!) -- how would you do that??? You should know that I usually keep the snare to the left next to the hi hat unlike some others who keep it bang in front of the bass drum.

[brandondrury]

Given that you want to pan the 2 mics left and right (hard or otherwise), how do you possibly get a centered sound for the snare.

That part is easy. Just make sure both the overheads are equidistant from the snare. When you pan them the snare should stay centered. It's often referred to as "phantom" center and it's the same way a pair of stereo speakers can have stereo information that magically comes from the center.

You should know that I usually keep the snare to the left next to the hi hat unlike some others who keep it bang in front of the bass drum.

Redraw the line in your head. Instead of a line coming straight from the audience to the drummer, draw the line so that it cuts the drums in half so that the kick and snare are centered (at an angle relative to what you are doing now). This will take care of all your panning / imaging issues.

Brandon

[ankursamtaney]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

That part is easy. Just make sure both the overheads are equidistant from the snare. When you pan them the snare should stay centered. It's often referred to as "phantom" center and it's the same way a pair of stereo speakers can have stereo information that magically comes from the center.
Brandon

I see what you mean. However, both the mics are facing different positions (one's facing the hi hat OR snare OR in between the snare and left tom), and the other is usually facing the ride OR in between the right tom and floor tom. So logically the one that's pointing to the snare or hi hat or left tom will pick up more of the snare than the other mic, right?.. Or am i doing something fundamentally wrong?

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Redraw the line in your head. Instead of a line coming straight from the audience to the drummer, draw the line so that it cuts the drums in half so that the kick and snare are centered (at an angle relative to what you are doing now). This will take care of all your panning / imaging issues.
Brandon

Hmm.. this is easy to picturise. Where should the two mics face then? Both facing the snare? In that case, will the mic to the right of the drummer pick up the right rack tom and floor tom at a similar level as the left mic picks up the left tom?. Will surely try this out, but am looking at first getting it right theoretically.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by ankursamtaney

I see what you mean. However, both the mics are facing different positions (one's facing the hi hat OR snare OR in between the snare and left tom), and the other is usually facing the ride OR in between the right tom and floor tom. So logically the one that's pointing to the snare or hi hat or left tom will pick up more of the snare than the other mic, right?.. Or am i doing something fundamentally wrong?


Hmm.. this is easy to picturise. Where should the two mics face then? Both facing the snare? In that case, will the mic to the right of the drummer pick up the right rack tom and floor tom at a similar level as the left mic picks up the left tom?. Will surely try this out, but am looking at first getting it right theoretically.

It's not a facing issue because the OHs are acting as Close Mics.

Both mics are picking up the entire drum set. The mics are aimed in the general direction of the kit, and as Brandon stated, make sure they are placed equidistant to the snare.

Both mics will pickup the floor tom. Both mics will pick up the high hat.

The left OH mic will feature more of the tom (okay, this is from the audience perspective) and the right OH will feature more of the high hat.

The right OH will also feature more of the "high tom (tom1)" and the left OH will feature more of the "low tom (tom 2)."

This is what makes up a stereo signal.

Your OH placement should be 3 to 6 feet (maybe a little more depnding on what you're going for) above the drum kit.

[bozmillar]

Keep in mind that a large part of the reason something sounds like it's coming from the left or right is not volume but delay. Something that is coming from the left of you sounds like it's to the left because it hits your left ear first. So as brandon mentioned, if your mics are equidistant from both your snare and your kick, the sound from them will reach the two mics at the same time and it will sound like it's coming from the middle.

[ankursamtaney]

Thanks, Bozmillar, I get what you mean, but my question still remains -- where should the two mics be facing? being equidistant from the snare and kick will get the kick and snare sound to both mics at the same time. However, chances are, the sound will be louder in the left mic (left of the drummer) than the right mic, correct? which would still mean it's more audible on the left than the right unless i raise the level of the right mic, which would make the floor tom, ride and right crash a lot louder!?!? (again, theoretically!).. Am i making sense here?

[stuartslanding1]

I know that this might be crazy, but I have been recording band practice lately with a limited amount of tracks. I have only 2 overheads for the drums, and I have been using the recorderman technique. I pan about 75% to each side, and the snare sounds centered to me. I have tried x/y and a wide spaced pair, but recorderman really does sound the best to my ears.

YouTube - Recorderman Overhead Drum technique

Hope this helps!

[bozmillar]

Originally Posted by ankursamtaney

Thanks, Bozmillar, I get what you mean, but my question still remains -- where should the two mics be facing? being equidistant from the snare and kick will get the kick and snare sound to both mics at the same time. However, chances are, the sound will be louder in the left mic (left of the drummer) than the right mic, correct? which would still mean it's more audible on the left than the right unless i raise the level of the right mic, which would make the floor tom, ride and right crash a lot louder!?!? (again, theoretically!).. Am i making sense here?

I think you're trying to put too much thought into this. That's not a bad thing, but really, there's no answer to you question. Face them which ever direction makes them equally loud.

The recorderman video above will probably get you a good sound.

[brandondrury]

but my question still remains -- where should the two mics be facing?

Two possible answers:

1) Easy, where they sound the best to your ears.

2) What drum sound do you want?

You've got to understand that if you are asking for THE way to do something, you are implying that there is only one way to do it. That ain't the case here.

Brandon

[bugbrain_04]

I third the recorderman vote. I learned about it last week and tried it to great effect. If you need more snare or more kick or something, you could lay down some samples, too.