Distortion in Major Label Recordings?

[Razortalon]

I've noticed that in some recordings (and I'm talking about pro recordings) that there is a pretty noticeable amount of bad sounding distortion. It's not smooth at all, if I had to guess I'd say it is digital distortion from clipping within the software, but I could be totally off. Im pretty sure its not my headphones, because its only on loud parts, but turning the overall volume down has no effect. Am I allowed to post like 10 second clips from songs to show you what I mean? My question is just whether any of you have noticed the same thing, and if there's anything you can do about it. One of my favorite albums (Machine Head's The Blackening) has this a lot, during solos and some tom fills and its annoying.

[TonyB]

I believe you're referring to the squashing principle thanks to the loudness wars.

That's probably the bulk of it. I was just listening to Kings of Leon material. I'm not impressed with the quality of the recordings....I think there's some timing issues with the performances (it's no secret the three brothers are relatively new at playing their instrument) and a little too much compression on some of the songs (can hear pumping).
...but I like their music and what they're doing with it. But the production doesn't seem as crisp, clean, pristine, etc as you expect to hear on the pop radio today.

[TM10]

My question is just whether any of you have noticed the same thing, and if there's anything you can do about it.

Yeap I notice it here and there. I hate it when I do cause its kinda hard to ignore it then lol. But personally, if I really like the music, it doesn't bother me too bad. I try to just "listen to the MUSIC" when im not mixing something (if you get what I mean). Just try to enjoy it for what it is.. music.. I know its hard when you have a technically trained ear though.

As far as being able to technically do something about it, I don't think you can as far as I know . But I could be wrong.

[Waltz Mastering]

Most of it comes from the recording engineer, mix engineer, and mastering engineer abusing the digital medium to a negative effect.

[TM10]

I believe you're referring to the squashing principle thanks to the loudness wars.

Most of it comes from the recording engineer, mix engineer, and mastering engineer abusing the digital medium to a negative effect.

Yeap lol. Honestly I don't really mind the whole loudness war thing. But sometimes they push it just alittle too far.

[Bigduggieface]

Here is a visual and audio demonstration that explains the idiocy of the Loudness War.

[YOUTUBE]3Gmex_4hreQ[/YOUTUBE]

Taken to extremes, many misguided producers & engineers would rather opt for distorting their product to compete with their loud competitors than deliver a quality product.

I think these people are operating out of fear. They are so afraid of criticism from the shareholders and the competition that they would compromise the product in order to bludgeon the listener with their 'hit single' being louder than the next song on the radio or your iPod.

It is no longer only a competition with good songwriting, performances and recording quality. Sickeningly, today it is also a competition of marketing, advertising, and sheer volume.

I hope we as engineers recognize and rectify this problem.

[paul999]

It is nice to see some albums going against the grain from time to time.

[bozmillar]

It's kind of weird. I mean, there's the loudness war and people push their songs up against limiters making it pump, but then there is blatant hard clipping on the track as well. You can be loud without clipping, but it seems like it's very common to not only have a slammed limiter, but also clipped.

It makes no sense to me how or why that happens. Obviously Death Magnetic is a prime example of this, but there are many many others. I don't see how it can be happening on accident. In order for me to actually clip the master bus at the mixing or mastering stage, I really have to go out of my way to make sure it happens.

[paul999]

Just think in a few years we will all be after that digital distortion sound because it is soooo much w@rmer then the new laser implant in our heads that injects music directly into our spine's.

[bozmillar]

Just think in a few years we will all be after that digital distortion sound because it is soooo much w@rmer then the new laser implant in our heads that injects music directly into our spine's.

Ha, it's funny, but true. I can't wait for the day when there is a plugin that emulates that "vintage mp3 sound" that was on the best recordings at the turn of the century. I've always wanted to write a plugin that does that.

[paul999]

You'll be rich! Just imagine what you can charge. Funnier yet imagine who would pay.

[severus]

IMVHO.. i never heard that distortion in a premaster version, but i'm sure, i really often heard it in a mastered version.. no offense to anyone, LOL..

^^

[shackman]

Just think in a few years we will all be after that digital distortion sound because it is soooo much w@rmer then the new laser implant in our heads that injects music directly into our spine's.

[Waltz Mastering]

IMVHO.. i never heard that distortion in a premaster version, but i'm sure, i really often heard it in a mastered version.. no offense to anyone, LOL..

Really, How many pre-mastered versions of major releases have you had the opportunity to listen to?

[severus]

Really, How many pre-mastered versions of major release have you had the opportunity to listen to?

15 - 20 albums, i think.. but in my country, Indonesia.. and I pretty sure that after the albums have been mastered, there are several distortion on it.. sorry for my english.. LOL..

[Waltz Mastering]

15 - 20 albums, i think.. but in my country, Indonesia.. and I pretty sure that after the albums have been mastered, there are several distortion on it.. sorry for my english.. LOL..

I'm sorry to hear that. Was this stuff that you had done? I would find a new ME.

Somebody has to be approving that stuff.

Anyway, I can tell you with certainty that mixes can come in distorted just as easily as they can go out distorted. This has been documented widely in the DM instance, many other, as well, this is my own experience, so to put it all on the ME is naive.

I have seen a trend though, where I think people are starting to be a bit more educated about the whole level thing, so hopefully some good will come of that.

ps. Your English is fine.

[paul999]

Anyway, I can tell you with certainty that mixes can come in distorted just as easily as they can go out distorted.

This has been my experience as well.

[severus]

I'm sorry to hear that. Was this stuff that you had done? I would find a new ME.

Somebody has to be approving that stuff.

Anyway, I can tell you with certainty that mixes can come in distorted just as easily as they can go out distorted. This has been documented widely in the DM instance, many other, as well, this is my own experience, so to put it all on the ME is naive.

I have seen a trend thouogh, where I think people are starting to be a bit mot educated about the whole level thing, so hopefully some good will come of that.

well, yes.. it's not all about Mastering Engineer, i think.. i'm pretty sure that no single one of ME want to have distortion in their works.. it can be the artist, the label, or even the Mixing Engineer didn't notice the distortion when they mixed it..LOL
BTW, always hate the LOUDNESS WAR.. turn up your speaker, please..

[paul999]

Now for my devils advocate opinion.

I always look at distortion like I look at fret buzz on guitars. A little in blues actually is cool. A lot on an acoustic punk song shows they really can't play and they have the strings laying on the frets hoping no one will notice. Buzzing on a classical acoustic=very bad.

In mastering analog distortion can be awesome. A little too much tube compression (whatever that is)can be wonderful. I will allow a very small amount of digital clipping for a client that wants the loudest album on the face of the planet. But it needs to be a certain pleasing quality LOL. Of course this is after many lectures etc. 99% of digital clipping is as bad as the classical guitar analogy IMO.

[severus]

I will allow a very small amount of digital clipping for a client that wants the loudest album on the face of the planet.

you said that

[garww]

I've noticed that in some recordings (and I'm talking about pro recordings) that there is a pretty noticeable amount of bad sounding distortion. It's not smooth at all, if I had to guess I'd say it is digital distortion from clipping within the software, but I could be totally off. Im pretty sure its not my headphones, because its only on loud parts, but turning the overall volume down has no effect. Am I allowed to post like 10 second clips from songs to show you what I mean? My question is just whether any of you have noticed the same thing, and if there's anything you can do about it. One of my favorite albums (Machine Head's The Blackening) has this a lot, during solos and some tom fills and its annoying.

I think what I notice most often is from the production end. This isn't always so, but you need to deduce where in the chain it comes from.

[garageband]

The Kooks "Ooh La". It was a free download and a huge hit in the UK. Acoustic guitars that nearly grind from the distortion on the "mastering". I've heard better mastering on the forum, not to mention to top-flight work Mr. Waltz does.

[bozmillar]

so why does it happen? I understand why people want louder, but I don't understand why people want clipping. Any mastering engineer should know how to use a limiter without clipping, and even if they don't, they should notice that it's clipping and know it's not quite right.

Is there a demand for clipping? I've never heard of such a thing, but maybe there is. I can't think of any other explanation.

[shackman]

Is there a demand for clipping? I've never heard of such a thing, but maybe there is. I can't think of any other explanation.

Can't believe I'm saying this but probably the answer to that is Yes. And worse - "pro" engineers will start to tell us that it's another facet of the "art form" , a new way of adding "something" to the music.

ARGHHHHHHH

[fHumble fHingaz]

Interesting thread!...This is a clip from the Foo Fighters' album "One by One"
(2002), a song called "Low"... Before I had any idea about digital clipping or The Loudness Wars etc, this track always made me feel kinda sick... now I realize why... Check it out - I swear, in Sonar, the meter never falls below -2dB!.. Dynamically, its as flat as a tack...Is this what George Massenburg refers to as "execrable"? By the time its been bit-crushed to oblivion by the venerable mp3 file, this little pop/rock nugget becomes quite a turd! Fortunately (or not), due to the style of track, I can't tell which instruments are supposed to be distorted & which are not. Digital distortion as a stylistic choice, anyone?
BTW, this album was mixed by Jim Scott & mastered by Bob Ludwig.