cant get my levels up high enough

[Mr.Stix]

hey my buddy refered me to this site since most of his problems were fixed thanks to all the help on here so heres my question.... i got the presonus fire studio with cubase le4 and was wondering how i get my final mix loud without it peaking... me and my band mates are quite a ways away from each other so were trying to make an E.P over the internet basicaly... i cant get my drum levels high enough to match the levels of the guitars without them peaking what the hell do i do?? been trying to use the vst dynamics but im totally clueless.. HELP ME!!! PLEASE GOD HELP ME!

[Vulconizer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Stix

i cant get my drum levels high enough to match the levels of the guitars without them peaking what the hell do i do??

My first bit of advice would be: Turn down the guitars in the mix.
The second? Get used to turning things down in the mix to keep the entire mix from clipping.

That's why volume knobs and faders go down as well as up....

Quoting from something I read the other night: Not everything in the mix can be the loudest thing at all times, but any one thing can be the loudest thing in the mix at any one time.

Think about it.

[boo]

Wise words from our pointy eared friend.

Research compressor/limiters, that will explain quite a bit.

[pounamu]

Mr Stx
Are you using real drums (my guess is you are with your name) ?
or software samples?

Pounamu

[earsnfingers]

Originally Posted by boo

Wise words from our pointy eared friend.

Research compressor/limiters, that will explain quite a bit.

Yes, but don't get carried away with compressors or limiters. Both are great tools, in small doses.

I like to limit a track to a couple of dBs below 0dB, while boosting the track a bit, at the same time. There's a fine line there, that you will have to listen for. Don't overly limit the track, leaving the threshold still high enough that you don't squash the dynamics, and those vital head room frequencies. And don't boost it so much that you smash these same dynamics up against the limited threshold, either. In all cases, less is more. Don't over do it.

Done correctly, it will increase the drums, without really turning the volume up. You'll get a fuller sound, with less fear of clipping. But, if you do it incorrectly, the cymbal crashes and the power toms will be squashed, resulting in a flat and whimpy track.

And by all means...turn the guitars down to match other tracks. Never be forced to turn up other tracks to meet a louder track. You might win a quick volume battle, but the war will be lost, in the final mix.

[sparqee]

Originally Posted by earsnfingers

Done correctly, it will increase the drums, without really turning the volume up. You'll get a fuller sound, with less fear of clipping. But, if you do it incorrectly, the cymbal crashes and the power toms will be squashed, resulting in a flat and whimpy track.

There's some good advise there but I just cringe whenever I see the words "correctly" or "incorrectly" used in this context. Unless you're damaging your gear I just don't buy into the use of these words when it comes to mixing. Maybe it sounds cool (in someone's opinion) to squish the hell out of their drums. Artistry often times begins just past the boundary of "standard practice".

Tweak beyond the limits of good taste say I!!! If it sounds like crap, turn the knob back the other way.

[pounamu]

The art of playing an instrument while being recorded.
I like the levels bit, the velocity thing. Whether we play guitar of percussion or any instrument with an attack that hasn't been compressed we need to think technique and placement of mics. So much to be gained I would think from concentrating on a groove with drums and keeping the drum levels as even as can be with feeling. I make no comment on your skills as a drummer Stx, as a guitarist this concept is something I work on all the time. If I can get the mic placed right and get my fingers feeling the way and get the volume of my picking even enough there is little compression to be done. Like a singeer who shouts when he or she dosn't know they are doing it. Have a look at your wave track and pick out the points at which the drums work and see (hear) what worked. Start from there.
My point of view.

Best
Pounamu

[jaxeman]

Just wanted to say, I've been using Cubase LE4 for about a year now (With a Toneport UX8). We record live drums on 8 channels simultaneously. I had the same exact problem, and while compression helped, the one thing I found that did the trick (while it might be a little unconventional) is duplicating tracks. Trust me, you do not want any track to peak (very close though, lol) but originally my main issue was my kick had no punch and didn't stand out at all. Now, I get the right sound (making sure it's not clipping) then I duplicate the track about 3 times. Of course, once you change 1 thing, you have to change everything else lol, you may only need 2 vocal tracks but 3 bass tracks, it takes a little playing. What also helps, once you export, there is a box you can check to allow you to import the mixed project back into your project on a track of it's own. This helps bring the overall volume up some (make sure you master level doesn't clip). Ok, so I cuased another problem, If you use many VST effects, Comp., Reverb, etc., your ASIO time usage goes through the roof (I end up with about 30 tracks, all with 2 or 3 vst's when I'm done). The fix I found for this is to split up your project into 2, or sometimes 3 different projects, i.e. Drums, Vox/guitars etc, mix the projects seperately. Then export the Drum project when it's right, and import into the vocal/guitar project on 1 track. This takes time to tweak right, you may have to duplicate drums again for overall level, but I think you'll like the outcome!

[jaxeman]

P.S., Sorry for the long winded first post (I've been reading the forums for quite a while, it's helped out alot) but it took me about 6 months to figure this out on my own, just wanted to save you some time! BTW, trust me, this works. Originally my mixes were about 1/2 the volume of pro artists, now they are very comparable. Of course, I don't have 100's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, but like Brandon always says, learning good audio engineering techniques, and knowing how to use what you've got, go a long way!
Thanks,
Jaxe

[cakewalkgg]

whats likely happening is there is many tracks that have energy (sound) in the same frequency range, and in those areas the frequencies are adding up and making it hard to increase the entire volume without peaking. my suggestion would be to use some kind of spectrum (frequency) analyzer to watch the song play and look for the range of frequencies that are living near 0db in the final mix.. (probably in the lows or low mids) in this area you probably have guitars and drums (maybe bass too) battling for space in the frequencies. youll have to cut some space to pack them in there. likely the guitars are pushing more lower freqs than they need to and you can probably just put a highpass on them and carve off the lows untill the drums start cutting through. You may need som eq' on the bass also.. if you can you might put a compressor on the bass using the kick drum signal to trigger the bass to "duck" the kick drum. Without knowing the software your using I cant say exactly how. What I mean is I dont know cubase.. probably in their forums somone has the details of how to do this.