Becoming a professional recording engineer

[echo]

This thread is largely a response from all sorts of people I encounter who are considering recording engineering as a career. I get asked this very frequently, so here's some advise for all of you who are considering this as a career option.

If you want to learn recording engineering as a hobby (i.e. model trains, ham radio etc) or so that you can make your own recordings in your own home studio, great!. By all means do it. It's fun, and yes you can learn to make great sounding recordings at home.

But if you are considering this as a *career* i.e. getting paid and supporting yourself as a recording engineer, here's my hard won advise. DO NOT!

Reason= You will never ever ever get a good paying job doing recording engineering. NEVER. Not in a thousand years. The reason? there are ZERO jobs out there. NOT ONE, that pays even half as much as 'burger king' or 'wal mart' . Reason? Recording studios are all either going broke, or already broke. They can't afford to hire anyone, unless they are cool with either YOU paying to work, working for free, or working for free with the promise of 'some day' getting paid a couple of hundred bucks when the band pays us, and similar bullshit.

When I was working at a studio in Toronto, we got, at minimum, 25 resumes and applications for the position of 'recording engineer' EVERY SINGLE DAY. We threw every single one out. Reason?. There are tons of very experienced recording engineers around, who have dozens of platinum album titles and 30+ years of experience, who are lucky if they can now earn $15/hr part time working in their craft. Why on earth would anyone hire someone with ZERO major project experience if you can get a world class pro for less than the guy who flipped your burgers at lunch time?

The only people making any money from 'recording engineering' are the dozens of dozens of bogus 'institutes' that promise a 'career' in 'recording engineering' in exchange for some exorbitant fee. (some as much as $12,000 - $20,000). Google 'recording engineer' and see how many jobs are there compared to the people who want to liberate your money in exchange for training in a 100% un marketable skill with zero career potential. (PS, you will find 0 jobs listed)

So . . the hard reality of recording engineering. Great to learn if you want to make recordings for yourself or your friends. It is NOT a career option at all. DO NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONSIDER BECOMING A RECORDING ENGINEER AS A CAREER. If you are considering spending a huge wad of money at one of these 'recording engineering institutes' , do it only if you want to get good at home recording or as a hobby. If they are telling you that you will become a 'highly paid working professional in the recording arts and sciences' then you are being fed pure bullshit.

You will NEVER EVER get a decent job as a recording engineer . Not ever.
Sorry, but that's just the reality of this profession that -used -to - be.

Here is a good link . .

(This is truthful)
Mistake #1 - Become a Recording Engineer!

echo

[garageband]

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure someone is contemplating giving a huge amount of Dad's money to Full Sall or some such fantasy camp and needs to hear this.

And a link, too? Very thoughtful.

[echo]

Thanks Garageband;

Like a lot of former recording engineers, I took a 'day job' so I can pay my bills, but still churn out albums at my home studio. I really, really love doing it - don't get me wrong. It's always fascinating, fun and a test of your artistic and intellectual powers. But there is no way to make a living at it.

However, if you are in a good band and you want to record your own album, go for it! Just don't expect to pay the rent doing it. It's impossible.

Cheers
echo

[recordingDR]

This thread is so bad. Brandon please delete this tripe.

[grooveboxmusicTony]

If I could just point out the obvious here. Your first two posts to this forum were to bash the professional recording industry?
Part of my combined income comes from recording music. I can't say that I would use words like 'never' or 'impossible'. I'm proof that its just not true.

Plus, in combination with promoting shows, or managing a band, or any other of the things you can do in the music business, being a recording engineer is one of the fun jobs.

Consider this the counter point to your point. People need to see both sides.

[brandondrury]

I want to make 2 points.

#1) If I didn't have the little bannner ads up on RecordingReview.com, I guess I'd be applying for a job a computer fix it store for $8....(most likely I'd be internet marketing junk and make 20x what I do now). My studio money has just about dried up. The demand is 5% of what it used to be because every kid has an audio interface now. Only the bands that want to make something fairly serious are calling me and it's only after they've failed at their own stuff.

Even though my skills have improved immensely in the past year or two, the local music scene doesn't really care.

My studio work has moved into a method of making $100 here, $400 there, and every once in a while I'll snag $3k for a big long project that requires a zillion hours of work.

So the world has changed. Back when I started 8 years ago I was the ONLY dude around who could record 16 simultaneous tracks without going to the $50 an hour studio that didn't sound that good anyway. Now, you can piece a studio together for almost nothing that can do the same.

I'm glad I saw all of this coming. I never considered my studio a "business". I just recorded bands and did my thing. I always had web adventures going on with RecordingReview.com or otherwise. Sometimes I wonder if that held me back in recording. Now I know I made the right choice for me.

The utopian idea of going to recording school and making a nice living doing a cool job has just about dried up I think when speaking in generalities.

#2) If you don't go for your dreams, what's the point?

The other side to this is if you REALLY want to do something in life, you just have to fucking do it. There are always reasons not to do it. I'm sure if I would have just gotten my degree in database boredom I'd be making $80k a year and considering putting a gun in my mouth. I'm glad I've went down the route that my girlfriend's parents will never understand....until my plans are fully realized and I have way more money than I really need.

So just go down a path. Do what you like. Everything I make money with today was on offshoot of what was a gigantic waste of time and money in my dad's eyes....guitar playing. My web skills and my recording skills are all I've got and I wouldn't have those unless I had the balls to waste my time doing something fun.

There was a post that really made me rethink my views on life just a bit. Let me find it. Well shit. I don't remember the title. Basically, the guy went to recording school, worked in a studio for 2 years where he did a TON of soldering. That gig dried up so he worked at a TV repair shop and was hired due to his experience at soldering in the studio. He then eventually went to a little electronics coarse that got him a bitter Mr. Fix It job. He then decided to go back to school where he got a degree in electrical engineering. When it came time to get hired for the serious job making BIG bucks, all his bullshit experience in soldering and real world troubleshooting gave him the edge over the other guys.

So maybe going the indirect route is not the fastest, but it may be the right choice.

In closing,

I do feel that there are some good points hit by the rant above and the link provided. Becoming a professional audio engineer is a tough gig. Making any money at it is very tough. There is quite a bit of sensationalism towards recording school and it's nice to see a hard hitting view that knocks the edge off of fit.

However, there is overt pessimism in both viewpoints that I can not accept. My success is on the tipping point. I will soon have the world by the balls. Pessimistic pussies don't succeed. It's impossible. So have the balls to believe in what you are doing.

There is a DVD / torrent floating around called The Secret that I recommend every pessimistic person watching.

Brandon

[recordingDR]

Pessimistic pussies don't succeed.
Brandon

brandon eloquently sums up this entire thread with this sentence. TC is a pessimistic pussy. successful recording engineers aren't.

[TonyB]

I want to make 2 points.

........

Brandon

Well said, Brandon! It's also about realistic expectations.

My studio is a part-time paid hobby! Yeah, I sunk alot of money into it with no expected payback or short-term break-even point.

Why part time? Because I live in an area that consists of part-time musicians. They have full-time non-music jobs or careers.

So I know I can never open up a full-time studio in the middle of central Alabama.

However, because I'm in proximity of Nashville, there are a lot of wannabe, big-star artists/musicians, so I do get some jobs where the artists are serious and actually get to use Nashville session musicians. So I tend to keep busy at least 4 nights per week over the past 2 years.

But once again, it's all part-time. I'm happy with that.

I'm happy getting paid a little money as compensation for my experience and services helping to develop young talent or helping older folks get back into music (been getting alot of that lately). I have a friend who is now paid by Sony/ATV full time to sit in Nashville and write songs.

So, along with Brandon's thoughts, and my philosophy.... "If it ain't phun, then you ain't doing right!"

I'M HAVING PHUN at WHAT I'M DOING AND MAKING SOME MONEY ON THE SIDE!

[KillerV]

Firstly I want to say thanks, Brandon. That was an excellent post. A damn excellent one. I love your no-bullshit way of doing things. I'm also at a point these days again where I really needed to hear "if you REALLY want to do something in life, you just have to fucking do it."

Secondly, I think the OP is a troll. It's not even so much what he wrote or that he came on here with that as a first post. I might not have been suspicious had he not provided that link, but now I would bet goooood money that this is the same guy who were just banned off another recording forum I frequent for doing this same kind of bulshit the whole time. That (this?) guy gets off on winding people up and created a sour atmosphere that everyone got really sick of, so I won't be paying him any further attention.

[Starlight182]

I will soon have the world by the balls. Pessimistic pussies don't succeed. It's impossible. So have the balls to believe in what you are doing.

There is a DVD / torrent floating around called The Secret that I recommend every pessimistic person watching.

I agree. I've watched The Secret and I recommend it as well. It's definitely something worth watching if you want to succeed in anything.

Don't let the OP discourage you. And who wants to find a job anyway? It's all about being your boss, aka owning your own studio.

[Bill1]

wow, maybe God blessed my ass 17 years ago when i went from a full time musician to a broke musician and everything in between. starting off into the part time world of contracting and giving up music as an accident due to marriage and kids and full time making more money i ever did.I have few friends with full big studios that hate to admit it to me for their ego reputation but they are drying up ..

The reason is well i am 51 now when we were all 20 years younger in the 80 and even in the 70's all the big music was at the booming where producers found bands and singers on the city streets and made them into stars. of course they could really sing and play.

but , now today its right its all the home studios are putting the larger studios out of business unless for those who really have the real wealth of big money to pay for a complete cd. well its not as bad as that but it can really cost . my buddy is at 900 nine hundred and still has to do the vocals and mix down and back ups. for one song it will cost him i say 1,500 when done. i could have done it for free on my LE set up pro tools or even 200.00

i wouldn't have charged him but the studios a lot of hem have HD I have LE plus several outboard add ons to get me a better sound over the stock LE.

We are falling . the days of horn sections are fading . i too play well rusted but i play trombone as awell as bass and gut, etc but horns are in demand.

everybody is buying home recording and the recording gear they are selling can adapt to the things like Pro tool LE wit hall the out board pieces of he big studios .Now all that really cost . Only one piece at a time for me at a few thousand a shot for like a pre amp or compressor. all above the plug ins. to get above of the plug in sound and step on the sound of the bigger studios well it take money and outboard gears as well.

but lets look, back in the day was "really" when music was more alive. this generation is into computers. look at dj stuff too.

i even do little hear and there , bought a set oe EIONs liquid filled with the stands and they pump. a cd player few hundred dj style. heres the todays way. so i added on too. A COMPUTER.

i take my dell laptop and speakers and kick the sound. want to compete against the real djs that really know how to mix,

get a free down load of "ultramixer or virtual dj" they sell them but you can get them free right from the company. i can't figure it out i guess if one doesn't know they give it away as free some buy it .thats todays world. it mixed those songs like the big boys or girls. import your i tunes list in it and drag what ever and bingo left to right the best mixes the best dj can ever want.

we are in the future from back in the day up to today. the kids today are so clever on the computer they will soon be the ones that invent the big studios sound from some software.

all is happening more and more each year.

i will be happy and thrilled when i reach the same exact or 90% of the HD sound on pro tools from my LE set up with all my goodies stacked.

we can all make it happen and look at the market. todays computer /recording gear.and plug ins from today are crushing all that was only several years ago.

soon ,the home studios will be the thing ,well they are and they keep getting more powerful.

i have the chance to go into a million dollar studio from a friend at $ 25.00 per hour, i understand he has to make "something " but i keep on my road and would rather spend another 2 thousand on something to take me into a great step above.

i personally feel i like my home studio. i can sing WHEN i am in the mode. all free, well (not thinking all i spent ) but i love it.

the feeling must be in you at times .how about booking time with a deposit and getting a cold. ???

Doing what you want is something you will miss when you get older. I could have been working in a studio as a musician and as an engineer 20 years ago . now 61 i am on a catch up on all and everything in the recording world of today.

IF i only had never totally stopped. So it may not always be the money of something you love but go get another money making job and still get involved in what you want with the studio too.

As for myself , i love my wife and family and it was best that i was a contractor ( self employed ) but i can truly say i missed many years of music and fell like a carving knife was in my heart at the age of 51 so dod what you love and 'IT WILL BE UP TO YOU ON HOW GOOD YOU GET AS FAR AS HOW MUCH YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO MAKE. Go get a job with one of those big engineers and you will learn his style . that is worth money all around. and in the long run will make you more money.

i just can't believe somebody can only get paid $15.00 per hour for knowing that much. Well in this depression i can . this is a real depression . maybe things will pick up for all soon,

[echo]

"i just can't believe somebody can only get paid $15.00 per hour for knowing that much."

Actually, He's LUCKY to get $15 a hour now. With over 30 years experience. Sad situation. The hundreds of 'recording school' grads all work for free. How can you make a living at it?. You can't, unless you have another job that pays.

Mostly I feel the students for all of these 'recording institutes' are getting scammed. Nearly all of the schools seem to promise a 'good paying career' once you pay them your $15,000 or whatever and complete the course. The truth, is there isn't chance in hell you are ever going to even make enough to pay your course fees, unless you do roofing or something on the side.

I think the distinction I am trying to get across is the difference between pursuing an interest, and pursuing a career. Learning and pursuing an interest is fulfilling, but you can only make it a hobby at best. A career will pay enough so you can support yourself, and will have advancement opportunity in the future. There are no more careers in Recording Engineering. None. Zilch.

echo

[sunsetsoneuropa]

Okay guys lets all pack it up and stop posting here. Echo has spoken. I cant believe we thought it was easy to get super rich overnight. I guess thats what we get for following our dreams. We are gonna be broke ass nothings if we continue this.

You dont go somewhere and try to get a gathering like some fucking evangelist. We all know how hard it is. We all know that most engineers didnt even go to school. Most of us probably didnt go to school. So i dont know how you think you can jump in here saying we are wasting time and money and its never gonna happen. How about you let us be broke and happy and live your life the way you want. Its not like you have helped anybody with your comments. Pointless waste of time. You are going nowhere with this.

[Bill1]

BOY !! My wife would like to agree to that 100%. Well i guess i feel a lot better know years ago i had lived and breathed music with all the roads it took. practice during the day playing at night . i made crap by the time i added all the hours. i loved it but somewhere i guess i now feel i may have made the "right choice" to become a contractor and start my own small buss that turned out to be good. well not in this depression but i guess it was good to put the music down for many years although i live inside of what musical roads i missed BUT, i have my own little studio home . pretty good equipped and still have another job. well all is still slow in this depression.

I have a x band member from phila. he totally stuck with playing buy gave it up in the clubs as things are paying crap. he does have a full time working studio BUT AND he is one of those who had teamed up with one of those out of nowhere schools and i mean i know who it was and the person just went out to advertise about learning to be an engineer.

Well for him it was another way to make money and to hire somebody for CRAP as a helper . AND I MEAN THE SUCKER DEAL OF LEASS THAN 10 bucks an hour for a so called working intern. yea right intern. BS.

I see what you mean . the studios are being crushed with too many so called want to be schools .well its america !!! I guess if there is a fool there is money to take.

There is nothing against that but , when so many real engineers can't even find work due to all those schools well some are real, some are just teaching. i guess there is nothing wrong with it as a private instructor to working and learning at a studio. but i see it is a shame.

I have been a contractor since 1985 and a dam good finish carpenter too. i get crushed a lot due to everybody hearing at time $$$$$ can be in contracting. I bust my A,, for all my insurances and licenses etc not even counting thousands in tools and truck etc. and here comes these f.......... here and totally underbid and give a garbage job and people go for it.

The world is growing with everything. music is a part of many .And give some kid a computer with a chance to make a song even with out real instruments it all clashes.

I probably spent a good portion of my life at practice and learning instrument. i only play real instrument none of those toy things but its all part of it look at all the midi. play the keyboards and you have it made for the entire song.

Well its a shame on the prices people get paid but "sometimes" the $15.00 per hour if on the books comes with a lot more as to a person being hired as an "employee" there are 13% workmans comp, state ,and local taxes, unemployment taxes. etc. the 15 turns out to be about $23.00 but we won't get into that online.

And if the engineer doesn't have to buy any equipment at all well all is said at the price then the owner of the studio has all expenses as electric , equipment etc,

Sometimes said a price . it all depends on whos studio it is as to who eles has to make money. its how it is. and in this depression. I would take the $15.00 per hour to get to mess with music as i love doing it. some money is better than no money BUT. i see what you mean. There is no money in being a engineer after paying to go to a school and promised BIG BUCK..

I guess the big bucks will come when they go to the school then pay thousands over thousands to make their own studio.Great for somebody who is very wealthy. As for me . i am doing ok but have to work for piece by piece.

I guess all depends on many things.

[Bill1]

Well i saw the post being a professional engineer i though is was sounding interesting but if it true about the pay i felt good hearing about the truth, now this can vary from city to city but 'LETS TALK ABOUT BECOMING AN ENGINEER ( to keep piece. ) I still like to hear the BS but lets see what is "INVOLVED IN BECOMING AN ENGINEER"

well. i think it is a lot of time needed. its fun when you get the music rolling. i first had a kick out of seeing the wave pattern of the music being recorded.

It takes a lot of reading and trying over and over .I feel its something you must want to do to face the challenge of the problems like any field one picks must get thru.

Its can be a pain in the a... when things go wrong. all take time to develop. But you must just want to do it. As for me it was pro tools. I bought the extra books .read them so many times .each time different things became more understanding to the on hands of the digi 002. it just take a bit of time to really get it moving.

it just depends wether it is for pro, as to make a living from it or a home fun thing after work.

I feel with the pro tools i have learned on my own by hands on and living and breathing uncountable hours and to this day still a non stop thing to get the sound to the highest level from what i have.

from a stock 002 to the mode, into outboard gear and so on. it depends on what "you " on what level want to do with it or become.

Check out the choices of all that is out there BEFORE buying gear. know what programs you want and what software too. there are many samples on line of everything. go to the music stores and other small studios to personally see what things look like and so on.

I feel you dod not have to go to any school at all. you can watch so many FREE you tube tapes and find so many of thing like mastering right from big time mastering studios that explain what they do.

The information is on google search for it and by the time you are sick of reading things on everything you need and want to know then you can decide what you feel is good info and what is bad.

But one thing. THIS IS A FUN SITE , you can learn and you can hear so many open feeling from some who like to post things. In life all is not peaches and cream.

So hearing some crap sometimes may even help you on what level you need to start off with and to know what you need money wise to buy you equipment that you will be needing and adding onto.