a basic question about balanced unbaleced connections

[Pedrowsky]

Hi All!

My first post even before introducing myself (so stuck with this)
and with a basic question

For sake of experimenting I'm used to have my Neutrick trs NYS SPP patchbay (greyjacks back - split/isolated) between my AW4416 unbalanced outs and my processors in (also unbalanced) connected with balanced cables (TRS all wires connected).

it's a strange mixture

But a mores serious recording/mixing job came along and I would like to know how can I get the best S/N ratio withould loosing peak level, or to put it simplier, what is the best way to connect the above.

Skip the patchbay and link the most wanted ext. processors to the 4 outs?

Use patchbay with unbalanced cabling and unbalanced patch cords?

turn my balanced Qed Qunex2 2/3meter long cable (over 14 of them) into unbalaced ones (how do I do this?)

Skip the posh cabling and use a simple Hosa 8x unbalanced snake instead?

Grateful for your answers and advices

Pedrowsky

[fmw]

It is all a matter of distance. If unbalanced runs are short enough not to get noisy then they aren't a problem.

[Bigduggieface]

Originally Posted by Pedrowsky

For sake of experimenting I'm used to have my Neutrick trs NYS SPP patchbay (greyjacks back - split/isolated) between my AW4416 unbalanced outs and my processors in (also unbalanced) connected with balanced cables (TRS all wires connected).

it's a strange mixture

But a mores serious recording/mixing job came along and I would like to know how can I get the best S/N ratio withould loosing peak level, or to put it simplier, what is the best way to connect the above.

Pedrowsky

When you talk about the "unbalanced outs" on your recorder do you mean "effect sends"? Probably so.

If you connect an unbalanced out to a balanced in, you have made an UNbalanced connection. If you connect an unbalanced out to an unbalanced in, you have made the same UNbalanced connection. This also means that it makes no difference whether you use a balanced (TRS or XLR) cable or a balanced cable if one of the ends is connected to an unbalanced jack.

Balanced connections are extremely beneficial if you are running long cable (20 or more feet). Theoretically you will get a minor improvement in s/n ratio, but in your situation, the difference would be nearly impossible to notice. Use balanced connections if you can, but you'll get by fine with unbalanced cables. You can continue to use your fancy cables without fear.

Also, the patchbay will have no influence on the sound quality. If it helps you maintain a neater and more versatile studio space, go ahead and use it.

I hope I've understood your questions and can be of help.

[brandondrury]

For sake of experimenting I'm used to have my Neutrick trs NYS SPP patchbay (greyjacks back - split/isolated) between my AW4416 unbalanced outs and my processors in (also unbalanced) connected with balanced cables (TRS all wires connected).

In this situation, you will never be balanced regardless of the cables you use. Your unbalanced gear is not taking advantage of the third lead (wire) in the cable and therefore there is no noise cancelling. I've not had much trouble with this in my place.

I'm curious if you have troubleshooted to make sure the noise problems is coming from the cables.

Brandon

[fortyseven]

While on this subject, can someone please explain the difference between balanced and unbalanced. I have a fair idea but what is it exactly?

[Bigduggieface]

Originally Posted by fortyseven

While on this subject, can someone please explain the difference between balanced and unbalanced. I have a fair idea but what is it exactly?

I wonder if there is a thread or a blog about this subject on this site. I haven't seen one. Anyway, here's a crash course.

Balanced connections use cable with 3 wires inside (2 opposing audio and 1 ground) while unbalanced connections use 1 audio and 1 ground. Guitar cables and RCA cables use two wires, while XLR and TRS cables generally use all 3 wires.

Most of the time (depending on the equipment) balanced lines carry an operating line level of +4db, while unbalanced lines are capbable of only -10db. This is most noticible when running long cable lengths since radio interference becomes an issue.

Balanced cables are typically used on microphones (since they are low impedence and often carry phantom power), and for connecting low-impedence sources to another low-impedence source (such as the XLR out on a mixer to an XLR in on a powered speaker).

Unbalanced cables and high impedence inputs on preamps are used to connect high impedence sources (like a guitar or passive bass). You can also use these cables to connect line-level sources (like a synth or a CD player). To run these over long distances, you must first connect it to a DI box (which changes a hi-z signal to a low-z) and run the remaining distance with balanced cable.

Sorry if this all seems technical. It is, in a way. I won't go into how all of the works, but you might want to Google this subject for more details.

To summarize, in a home studio, balanced gear is a luxury and not a necessity. In a live setup where you're running long cables to mixers and power amps, balanced cabling connections become much more important.

[fortyseven]

Thank you so much. That helps a lot. How does one tell the difference between balanced and unbalanced cables or do they look the same?

(sorry, don't mean to detract from the main topic here)

[Bigduggieface]

Originally Posted by fortyseven

How does one tell the difference between balanced and unbalanced cables or do they look the same?

Here are some (kinda small) photos of balanced connection jacks:

Note that the tips of all 3 jacks have three connection points. The last two are balanced TRS jacks. They look like 1/4" guitar jacks, but notice that the TRS jack has TWO black bands on it while a standard TS guitar cable has only ONE black band. TRS is an acronym for "tip-ring-sleeve" and TS is "tip-sleeve".

[fortyseven]

Thank you so much. That answers a long-standing question in my mind.