The band can't play in time

[Smidgelton]

Brandon, have you considered opening a *personal advice* column in this forum? lol

[Futant55]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

One other thing. If these bags of crap don't have the work ethic to learn how to play to a click track in 2 weeks, then they should be executed. They have officially wasted your time.

I'd stop all recording / producing immediately. I'd back up the files onto DVD and delete them from the hard drive. I'd call up the band leader and tell him to shove it up his ass. If they want to grow up and play ball, they'll come out with a mindblowing recording. Tell him if the band can't get their shit together in one week, you are officially ending the project and moving onto a band that actually wants to work hard on creating something truly great.... I'd randomly sprinking in words like "fuck", "fuck you", and "you motherfucker" in there as you see fit.

You are being walked all over like you are a total pussy. I WOULD NOT stand for this and you shouldn't either. If you are seroius about producing, you have to let every person in the band know that you are a bad motherfucker. If they don't respect you, screw em. If they don't work to work hard, fire them!

Brandon

That was so awesome I printed it out and taped it to my filing cabinet. I know that I will be in this situation sooner than later, and 've had a tendency to not stick up for myself in the past, but It's never been about anything that I have been as passionate about as music. This is the mindset that I want to go into the studio with, I don't think it's too harsh, Its the producers job, How is the music ever goping to be over the top If the producer isn't going for 110%

[brandondrury]

How is the music ever goping to be over the top If the producer isn't going for 110%

Agreed. It's not like you have to yell, curse, or have a temper to be a great producer. However, you must demand respect or the whole thing recording will go to crap immediately. The producing gig is a fairly unique social situation and one where you can not be walked on. This doesn't mean that the producer can't be wrong about a musical idea, but it does mean that if you are late or if you do not put the proper amount of work in, you will be accountable for it.

Producing is about getting the most intense and effective music possible out of your musicians. Some of that is limited by talent, but most of the limitations I see are imposed by laziness. I see people who'd rather watch TV or play video games than do what it takes to make a great record. There is nothing wrong with playing video games, so if a person chooses other interests over music while in the middle of a really serious recording, great. At least you know now.

After engineering so many records were I was not running the show, I've been walked on 1000 times. You learn to avoid these situations like the plague. Of course, recording a few songs in a weekend is nothing like really producing a record. When you produce, you push a singer's buttons in a way like you would never do with someone you don't know well.

This is actually why I'm big with writing songs with the band. Even if none of them make the record, I want to feel comfortable with them before we start tracking. Sometimes, I have to think in my head how I'm going to tell whaever musician that what he played sucks. There are a million ways of doing this but it's much easier finding the right one if you know the person fairly well.

Brandon

[Andrew07]

Thanks for all the kind words dude, I had a feeling your reply would be so **** and fuzzy. Well, I sat down with the band and told them how it was going to be(I'm not sure I used the word "fucker" or "mother fucker" as much as you suggested though) if they want to continue working with me. Basically they said they'll do anything I tell them to do and the rest of the project is ultimately in my hands to shape. We finished rough demos for everything and I've given the band members homework assignments to finish before they can come in again.

Here's a rough demo of one of the songs. Timing is the biggest issue with the band, let me know what you think of the singer.
http://www.cherryhillrecording.com/mp3/Threat.mp3
Yeah I know its compressed to shit

Brandon, you talked about producing producing producing but what do you do when you can't produce every band you work with? I'm still building up a name for myself and I simply can't turn away bands that aren't good enough or don't want me to produce them.

[damoh]

What do these guys sound like live? Are they playing in time then or is it still out?
If so... there aint much hope, just make sure you have not overlooked something as simple as monitoring which is not adequate for them to get a good feel from.
It is something we dont often think of as engineers, but is of prime importance for your talent to do their job properly.

[brandondrury]

Brandon, you talked about producing producing producing but what do you do when you can't produce every band you work with? I'm still building up a name for myself and I simply can't turn away bands that aren't good enough or don't want me to produce them.

Well, sometimes I do projects for the quick buck. I always end up feeling like I wasted my time or I feel whored out. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with working for a dollar, but I major issues with the per hour pay method on any job.

Everything I do now is designed to make me very happy and financially independent in 5-10 years. I only care enough about the present to make just enough money to scrape by. It's required a lot of sacrifices but I think this is all a means to an end.

You really need to balance between paying the rent now and being a badass in 5 years. I will go the badass-in-5-years track as much as I can stand.

I'm still building up a name for myself and I simply can't turn away bands that aren't good enough or don't want me to produce them.

I think you answered your own questions here.

I'm still building up a name for myself
I'm still building up a name for myself
I'm still building up a name for myself
I'm still building up a name for myself

Think about that A LOT.

Here's the way I see it. Your name is on every project. From the average listeners perspective everything is your fault / responsibility. If a project sounds great, you win and will get credit for that. The only people listening for "sounds great" are other musicians who are judging your engineering / mixing abilities (of course both of these can be useless without the right songs, producing, and musicians).

The rest of the world is looking for great music. If you can produce a record that the general public gets excited about and the record sounds good (doesn't have to necessarily be great) you will be getting way more business than you can stand.

Here's another way of looking at it. Assuming you are about 25 years older. Would you have rather done the first REM record down in Georgia or would have rather done 6 local Georgia bands? Personally, I only want to be part of the records that matter to people. By "records that matter", I mean that there are records that were a big deal in my life and I want to make a record that is a big deal to someone else's life.

I will NEVER get to that point simply sticking microphones in front of local bands who a large majority of are half assed wastes of time. I feel that most "local" musicians had parents who 100% failed. Maybe you have a bigger pool to choose from and can weed out the shitbags and just slowly get recording experience. I say the only real engineering experience is producing.

Brandon

[brandondrury]

Oh yeah, the singer.

Is this a one taker or comped?

His tone is really good for the genre. That's a big deal.

His pitch isn't great. If this is a one taker you can probably work with him and make it fit. I'm sure you'll be whipping out the autotune.


How much have you worked with arrangement and songwriting with these guys? The chorus sounds like a pre-chorus to me. A big part of it is the way the drummer is coming out of the pre-chorus. He's not making it brutally obvious that THIS is the chorus now. That's the drummers #2 job behind timekeeping. (I'm listening on just one side...these damn 1/8" jacks!!! If anything is hard panned, I maybe missing it).

Anyway, I would do some critical listening to the way this chorus is working. The melody seams alright. But there is something really bothering me about this choruses lack of chorusness.

Timing and groove are important, but I think it's the arranging that really makes a song work. I wouldn't let this chorus out as is, but that's just my personal opinion.

Brandon

[flhctroll]

Don't seem that bad to me. I dig his screams

[Babazon]

I dont remember how to play without the metronome click anymore
(All my practicing composing and recording sessions are done on adobe audition on a tempo i pick before)
However there can be guitarists who can play precisely at the same tempo as metronome would click. Can only respect.


What you need to tell your guitarist:


Start the click sound. Tell him to start hitting open E(low) synchronized with every 4 click (for a 4/4 song) Then let him make it every 1 click. Playing 1/4 notes now. Make him go faster. Hit E as 1/8 notes, then 1/16. When he can play the melody-rhytm as 1/16 hits (alternate picking) he can perfectly go along with the click track.

I do this from the beginning when i change tempo between songs and cant catch up (from 100 to 160 for exmaple)

[Babazon]

Oh i was forgetting this

**** coffee