Bad real drums vs bad sequenced drums

[Superdude]

Programming real drums vs. dance style electronic drums:::

If you havent tried it already, JAMSTIX VSTI is very useful for laying down drum tracks with the human feel. You can either use the built in kits, or you can use another rhytmic vsti to be triggered by Jamstixs' midi output. I love using BFD through it...It is amazing!!!!, but i find it very difficult to get Jamstix 'jamming ' something simple (less is more), as apposed to thinking its animal from the muppets, with no room for space.I find it complicated software to get my head around, but im sure you guys might find it very useful.

RAYZOON JAMSTIX

[Audio~Geek]

IMO poorly sequenced drums are harder to work with. Even bad drummers will play good things that I a non drummer would never think of to program.

I can fix a bad drummer (I'm trying to make a living from it!), I can quantize him 100% to the grid and it still won't sound like a loop. I can then replace the sound of all his drums.

I find MIDI editing to be way more tedius.

I can get great results with Addictive drums (or anything that has drag&drop patterns), but I don't think I'd submit something to a label with programmed drums pretending to be a real drummer.
Real drummer pretending to be a drum machine, no problem.

[recordingDR]

I much prefer poorly played live drums. Depending on the genre, poor performances can even sometimes add beneficial "character" to the music. Poorly sequenced artificial drumming always sounds bad. Plus sometimes beat detective can make a horrible live drum performance sound great

[scooterlow]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

So my vote goes in the "bad drummers are worse than poorly sequenced drums"?

Brandon

Yep Me too.
I feel if you have a guy that plays drums and you want to record some tracks and he sucks and wastes your time them shame on you. If your gonna spend the time and effort to do live drums I would think you would use someone worth a crap to begin with.
But if by chance you end up with bad drum tracks you look worse in your profession that if say you did a programmed track and you weren't a drum programmer and you just need something on the track to keep time.
This is really a tough one, cause they both blow...

[Audio~Geek]

When its a band you're recording you are usually stuck with the drummer they give you.
so you're limited by time, and budget. Replacing the drummer comes out of your pocket, plus you have to lie to the band. Worked for the Beatles.

[scooterlow]

Originally Posted by Audio~Geek

When its a band you're recording you are usually stuck with the drummer they give you.
so you're limited by time, and budget. Replacing the drummer comes out of your pocket, plus you have to lie to the band. Worked for the Beatles.

Agreed, I was thinking in terms of home studio recording and placing the tracks together with what and who you know.

[lolzgreg]

Originally Posted by Audio~Geek

IMO poorly sequenced drums are harder to work with. Even bad drummers will play good things that I a non drummer would never think of to program...I can get great results with Addictive drums (or anything that has drag&drop patterns), but I don't think I'd submit something to a label with programmed drums pretending to be a real drummer.
Real drummer pretending to be a drum machine, no problem.

I'm going to go on a little rant in another section that you'll see.

I'll take poorly sequenced drums, because they're fixable, really fixable.

The problem here is that if you want to be an excellent engineer and producer, you have to "be the drummer" sometimes. I'm not talking about playing them either, you have to be "better than the drummer" on occasions as well.

I recently spent nine hours tracking drums for a hardcore band I'm recording. It sucked the big time chode.

The second I sat down and he started playing I knew it was going to be a long day. The band was in a rush to record since the drummer was going away. I sat down and worked out his parts with him BARRE BY BARRE. We punched in and punched out practically every 30 seconds or so.

Every piece of work you record represents you (or misrepresents you) 10000000%. If you ever plan on taking this whole recording thing seriously, you have to think twice about everything you track.

-Greg

[scooterlow]

Yep that's why I say give me a drummer that can lay the shiet down right in one or two takes or I'll just program it myself.

[Mongolian Fire Oil]

I have no cred here, but I have to post on this anyway.

I see two distinct points of view on this, or rather reference points: one is as a listener, the other is as an engineer having to "fix" something. In terms of fixing, yes you can fix sequenced drums, but to me they will always (?) sound fake. Not sure if there is such a thing as always but I would bet that I have never heard fake drums that I thought were real. Period.

Take a step back from professional engineering, and whether your reputation is at stake, and ask yourself if sequenced drums EVER sound better than actual drumming - from a music lover's perspective. Would you really rather EVER listen to programmed drums? Have you ever listened to a song, and said to yourself, wow, I really like that drummer, that was a cool fill, offbeat, run, etc., only to find out that you were listening to programmed drums? I know I have not...

If a drummer is so bad that you must fix him by substituting fake drums, and that's really what they are once you program them - they are an alternative to the human PROCESS of drumming - then maybe you should ask yourself if you should be bothering at all. Especially if you think your reputation is at stake. If you can save your reputation by substituting, then hell, go for it. I would rather find another drummer if it were worth having in the end. Just my two cents, please be gentle.

[lolzgreg]

Originally Posted by Mongolian Fire Oil

Just my two cents, please be gentle.

No one's gonna bust your balls here for having an opinion. If they do, I'll cyber-sock 'em

I agree on THAT take on it. I would rather have a good drummer. Wouldn't anyone? (No drummer jokes please).

-Greg