automation - i hate doing it

**redworks** · 07-19-2012, 08:05 AM

When i mix i group all the tracks into folders (sonar x1), set up busses and routing, clean up individual tracks (remove noises, tune, hpf, eq, compression, etc whatever it needs), some panning and fading, some fx busses and i am feeling pretty good. One problem; the volume can not stay at that level the whole song. Ahhhhh automation. Here is what i think i have problems with in automation. 1. lots of decisions 2. once the automation is in place than on say the guitar if i want to keep the automation but have the whole thing a little louder i have to go through and change each section or push up the buss volume which affects the other guitars. (i think there probably is a way in sonar to move the whole envelope but i have not found it yet and i have not done enough research. dooh) 3. which track to you automate first. 4. which one next 5. i just dread it. i can have a mix to that stage and then leave it sitting there for days. i want every mix i do to sound as good as possible and at this stage i am finalizing things and that is hard for someone of my personality who believes it is not good enough yet. the levels are not right, that one instrument is..., i should...

Am i doing something wrong or is it just hard work and i should suck it up and get it done?

**bobbybovine** · 07-19-2012, 08:25 AM

I kind of hear you but I feel the exact opposite with automation. This is where the magic happens where you can really sculpt what the listener is going to hear and you have the ability to literally lead their ear around to the parts you want them to notice at different times. Automation is what gives mixes the dynamic feel while having a limited dynamic range. So to address your numbered issues I will give you my take of it, take it for what its worth.

1. Honestly, mixing is ALL about the decisions, if you don't like decision making, in a creative way then mixing would probably stress you out rather than feeling empowered that you have ALL the control.
2. I use cubase and with cubase 5 you can select all the points on the automation line and then just drag up, pretty quick, you can also select only sections and do the same, I suspect it should be very similar with Sonar
3. That goes back to the decision, after I get a good static mix happening I will usually try and figure out what the loudest section should be (usually the last chorus) and make that as smoking loud and powerful as I feel it should be, then I automate down the other parts to fit the context of the song. doing it this way will prevent you from running out of headroom if you start at the low parts first.
4. See #3
5. Don't, if you dread it, your mixes will suffer dramatically. Like I said you are GOD as far as that mix is concerned and automation is how you get all the little bastards that want to take over the mix to do what you want!

Not doing anything wrong in my opinion but the dreading it part is the thing you need to get over. Once you start to get a handle on it your confidence in your decisions will increase and so will the quality and emotional impact of your mixes.

**garageband** · 07-19-2012, 08:46 AM

Am i doing something wrong or is it just hard work and i should suck it up and get it done?

As soon as I have sound I am halfway like to keep, I switch the automation on for that track and put in an opening fade from ∞ to 0.0 dB. I use the Trim plug in to manage the overall track volume and leave the fades to follow the automation that is based around it being 0dB. And that's every time, on every track. Turn the automation on. Don't allow yourself any decision in the matter, 'cause that's the worst part - the whole "do I really need it?" Eliminate that point of discussion. It's not worth the time to scratch your head over it. Yes, you need it to be going. Once it's going, it's easy to add stuff as you need to.

I like the Bobby sees this as a low-cost way to assert huge power over a project. That's what I call Keeping It Positive.

**bluzdog** · 07-19-2012, 08:59 AM

Check out Fast Biker Boy's video on automation (Sonar X1 - Edit filter & Envelopes - YouTube). He has a shortcut for moving a whole envelope up or down without the tedious work of going through individual sections. Automation is your friend don't alienate it. I usually do a static mix first, then I'll automate the main vocal track to even it up the volume. My next stop for automation is usually guitars. I usually work on automation while I'm working a particular element of the mix and then tweek as needed as I go along.

Rocky

**m24p** · 07-19-2012, 09:14 AM

Learn how to do automation in Sonar without having to do weird workarounds. And do it as soon as you hear something that jumps out as needing it. It takes literally 15 seconds to automate a phrase.

**ff_** · 07-19-2012, 09:16 AM

I have a similar problem: I don't like to put hands on the static mix, because I feel like I'm destroying the fine ear work to make it stand on its own and the equilibrium that I found between the tracks. I think it's a mine psicological problem, I'm working to overcome this thing. (And I'll buy a good controller)

**garageband** · 07-19-2012, 10:26 AM

(And I'll buy a good controller)

I guess you can't talk about automation without talking about these things. I had one of those 1-fader deals and really tried to get into using it (three months or so), programming the buttons and everything. As far as writing auto., it was just not better than drawing it in. There was almost noitimes when I didn't had to clean one up with a mouse anyway. Sold it. I can't recommend 'em. I don't think it's easier, faster nor delivers better quality automation. I do like having external transport control of the DAW but that's a different subject.

**m24p** · 07-19-2012, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by garageband

I guess you can't talk about automation without talking about these things. I had one of those 1-fader deals and really tried to get into using it (three months or so), programming the buttons and everything. As far as writing auto., it was just not better than drawing it in. There was almost noitimes when I didn't had to clean one up with a mouse anyway. Sold it. I can't recommend 'em. I don't think it's easier, faster nor delivers better quality automation. I do like having external transport control of the DAW but that's a different subject.

Having multiple faders could be useful, especially if you're used to doing it that way. I haven't messed with it much though because programming is so easy to understand.

**brandondrury** · 07-19-2012, 11:39 AM

once the automation is in place than on say the guitar if i want to keep the automation but have the whole thing a little louder i have to go through and change each section or push up the buss volume which affects the other guitars. (i think there probably is a way in sonar to move the whole envelope but i have not found it yet and i have not done enough research. dooh)

I always adjust the output gain of some insert....usually a compressor. That takes care of it without affecting your automation.

3. which track to you automate first.

When I mix I try to keep it the totally UNSCIENCE it is. I just deal with the first thing that bothers me. There is no method. It's totally a "mood" thing. If nothing bothers me, I don't do anything. (That rarely happens.

)

. i want every mix i do to sound as good as possible and at this stage i am finalizing things and that is hard for someone of my personality who believes it is not good enough yet. the levels are not right, that one instrument is..., i should...

I've never encountered a "victory" at render time. It's usually quite the opposite. I usually just tap out and accept defeat. Every once in a while I hear one a day or week later and say, "Hell, maybe I won that one!".

The projects where it's expected I "up my game" and mix "better" than I know how to are always a disaster. This usually occurs when the songs aren't strong enough to overcome whatever hurdles I may put in between them and mega awesomeness. Great songs always sound like great songs (even if the sound quality ain't perfect) when I do 'em as I don't believe the hurdles I put in place are THAT high. However, the mindset of trying to make it to Andromeda when we can't afford to make it to the moon almost always ends in frustration.

The best solution I've found is to do stuff like this when I'm in the mindset of kicking ass and making the song ROCK. Playing the Find The Flaws game puts you in a never ending feedback loop.

Brandon

**redworks** · 07-19-2012, 12:04 PM

cheers guys, this is just what i needed. Some good advice, some ideas (thanks bluzdog for the video by the way. i figured sonar would have a way) and mostly just a good swift kick in the pants.

One other question though to throw in the mix before this thread fades. Does anybody automate a track, bounce it to a new track with the automation applied and then archive the old one? I have been thinking about doing this as part of my track clean up just to get rid of some of the extreme dynamic changes. Kind of like throwing vocal rider (if i had it) to a vocal and bouncing that to a track and then carry on with my mixing.

**bobbybovine** · 07-19-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by redworks

One other question though to throw in the mix before this thread fades. Does anybody automate a track, bounce it to a new track with the automation applied and then archive the old one? I have been thinking about doing this as part of my track clean up just to get rid of some of the extreme dynamic changes. Kind of like throwing vocal rider (if i had it) to a vocal and bouncing that to a track and then carry on with my mixing.

I don't do this with automation but I have and do do it if I need to manually fix s's or ch's by drawing them down in cubase and a de esser just isn't cutting it. Or if I creatively edit a guitar or bass track I may save it as the new track, but depends on my mood I suppose.

**garageband** · 07-19-2012, 12:22 PM

Does anybody automate a track, bounce it to a new track with the automation applied and then archive the old one?

I do almost the opposite. If I have bounce Melodyne through, for instance, I''ll turn off the automation (and the rest of the plugs) so the automation will play right later. I don't view it as untidy.

**jimsies** · 07-19-2012, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by bluzdog

Check out Fast Biker Boy's video on automation (Sonar X1 - Edit filter & Envelopes - YouTube). He has a shortcut for moving a whole envelope up or down without the tedious work of going through individual sections. Automation is your friend don't alienate it. I usually do a static mix first, then I'll automate the main vocal track to even it up the volume. My next stop for automation is usually guitars. I usually work on automation while I'm working a particular element of the mix and then tweek as needed as I go along.

Rocky

Hey all,

Thanks for the vid Rocky - this is what i wanted to know as well!

J

**fHumble fHingaz** · 07-19-2012, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by bluzdog

Check out Fast Biker Boy's video on automation (Sonar X1 - Edit filter & Envelopes - YouTube). He has a shortcut for moving a whole envelope up or down without the tedious work of going through individual sections. Automation is your friend don't alienate it. I usually do a static mix first, then I'll automate the main vocal track to even it up the volume. My next stop for automation is usually guitars. I usually work on automation while I'm working a particular element of the mix and then tweek as needed as I go along.

Rocky

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, Rocky!

I think you just saved me from an almost certain case of RSI in my RH index finger!

Oh, & thanks Red, for bringing this topic up.

**bluzdog** · 07-19-2012, 08:59 PM

No problem, I'm glad you guys like the video. Check ou his other Sonar X1 videos. .

Rocky

**Emma** · 07-19-2012, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by bobbybovine;3591742.

I use cubase and with cubase 5 you can select all the points on the automation line and then just drag up, pretty quick, you can also select only sections and do the same, I suspect it should be very similar with Sonar

THANK YOU Bobby!!!
I did know that and I had totally forgotten it... duh...

Hooray!! Thanks for the thread redworks!!

**rook2c4** · 07-19-2012, 10:01 PM

Whenever I have a rather tedious automation project before me, this is what I do:

Do a couple of bars, then take a break. Then do another couple of bars, followed by another break. Etc. Learn to get excited about "nailing" the automation for each section - before returning to your next break. You want to break up the monotony just enough that the automation process doesn't get too tiresome.

**shackman** · 07-20-2012, 12:43 AM

I hear the pain here, and some great advice down the thread.
Automation, for me, is THE way to go, and I find it grinding.

Brandon mentions the MOOD thing about automation, he's so right. It's NOT scientific except when used as a manual ducking system (lower guitar to hear vox etc etc)

I get inpried by the effect you can create with automation, but once that has passed, and the mood has been found, it becomes a long-winded grind to get it all done. I often finsih the work having completely forgotten what the original mood was.

I tend to automate all Vocals where I use it as a completely transparent compressor. I automate fill guitars (so they don't overpower vocals but they come to the front when vox are silent).

And - I quite often find small segments in a track where the BAss/or the kick/ or the Snare needs to be raised/lowered a little. Many might scream "NO" at that, but if it's done right, the snare/kick/bass DOESN'T sound louder/softer at the automated point, it just blends with everything else that's going on.

As to that awful moment when you realise that the entire track needs raising or lowering AFTER you automated it.

For me, that used to be easy. Up to Samplitude 9, you just raised/lowered the fader and it took all the automation with it.

But by Samp 10, they'd unlinked the two. That said, it is (on that DAW) simply a question of slecyting all the automation points (a mouse sweep across them) and then push them up a little.

You can do all of this independly of any buss you have set up and then change the buss volume if you've affected to overall level there.

**redworks** · 07-20-2012, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by shackman

As to that awful moment when you realise that the entire track needs raising or lowering AFTER you automated it.

For me, that used to be easy. Up to Samplitude 9, you just raised/lowered the fader and it took all the automation with it.

But by Samp 10, they'd unlinked the two. That said, it is (on that DAW) simply a question of slecyting all the automation points (a mouse sweep across them) and then push them up a little.

You can do all of this independly of any buss you have set up and then change the buss volume if you've affected to overall level there.

thanks for the advice. as far as this issue i have found out that it is simple in sonar. it is just a matter of being in the top third of the track space with an envelope active and you can drag the whole thing up and down.