Audio Engineering Schools?

[ratmandtotti]

Hello all! I have some serious questions here that may affect my future and I need some advice from some of you experts that either work in the field of audio recording or that know someone that does. I recently dropped out of the university I was attending, the University of Toronto which is pretty much the canadian equivalent to a college in the United States. I attempted majoring in computer science but I just couldn't keep up partially cause I had absolutely no experience using any programming language from high school but also cause I never got help when I should have gotten it. I am currently gonna try to find a temporary job at a grocery store or some other place to gather up a bit of money. Anyways, I've been looking at enrolling myself into a college or one of those audio engineering institutions. The first I've checked out so far is Metalworks in Mississauga, just outside Toronto. Has anyone heard of it?

Metalworks link: Metalworks Institute of Sound and Music Production - Canada's Elite Entertainment Arts School - Mississauga, Ontario

Another is Fanshawe College in London, Ontario: Next Academic Year, Music Industry Arts, Fanshawe College

Do you guys think these schools are worth it? Metalworks for instance costs about 20,000$ for a one year program and almost 40,000$ for a two year program. Fanshawe on the other hand is much cheaper. Metalworks is a pro studio however and has apparently recorded famous artists, bands and rappers including Our Lady Peace, D12, David Bowie, Alexisonfire and tons of others. They've even done recording for movies like Cars and Chicago. They've got a Neve mixing board that costs 1.2 million dollars I think. In fact, they've got 9 studios all together. I swear I'm not promoting for the company but it is a pretty impressive place. I just don't know if going there will really help to land me a job. They do a good job at talking about things but I just don't know if they'll really help you in the end.

Anyways, I love music and everything that goes with it. Unfortunately, I feel that I'm not the greatest musician but I do have enough musical knowledge to get by since I've studied piano since I was a kid, I've been playing guitar for a good 6 to 7 years and I've been listening to music since I was in my mom's womb. In terms of recording, I've been using Logic Pro for the past year and a half and I've briefly explored Pro Tools, Cubase and Reason 4. I also have experience with my all time favourite plugins Toontrack and Guitar Rig 3. Unfortunately, I'm still a real amateur at compressing and EQing. I've also gone through about 4 different audio interfaces in the past 5 to 6 years starting with an m-audio fast-track usb to an alesis io 14 to a digidesign mbox 2 which I stole from my school cause I was so desperate to try Pro Tools and now an Apogee Duet, which I legally purchased at a local Long and McQuade.

Ok and for my last few questions: Is it actually possible to survive in the music industry today as a recording engineer/artist? And does going to one of those schools help in any way?

If anyone can give me any advice, either post it here in this thread or you can also email me at julienfalcone@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance to anyone that responds,

Julien Falcone

*I'm lost right now man!*

[bozmillar]

Hey man. There's a lot to respond to here, and I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses. To answer your question about the school, spending $40,000 on a two year program would be, in my opinion, the worst use of $40,000 anyone could ever use. You'd spend the rest of your life working at a grocery store just trying to pay it off.

There is no magic to recording. It's not like these guys have some crazy secret that only they know that would make you a better sound engineer. They will teach you the basics of audio engineering. No doubt they probably do a pretty good job, and you would have access to a lot of cute gear, but you can buy some pretty nice stuff for $40,000.

Even if you do get great schooling, that doesn't mean you'll be a good sound engineer. Nobody cares if you went to some school where some famous guy recorded a CD. All they care about is how good you can make their songs sound and how nice a place you have to record.

If you want a certificate, you can download a Word template and print one out yourself.

If you want to make money by being a sound engineer only, you are probably going to have a rough time. Any kid can buy an interface and a few microphones and get good sounding recordings. It's not some sort of glory job that the movies make it out to be. You have to have good business, good marketing, good engineering and good music skills. You have to diversify yourself.

there are plenty of ways to learn to record without spending $40,000. Studios are dropping off the map these days. There are more people who would be willing to work in a recording studio for free than there are recording studios.

I'll let other people take it from here. I just don't think it's a good plan.

[willjrockstar]

dude you should really edit the part about you stealing gear.

[C. Hanson]

20 grand a year. You have to weigh up whether the experience will be worth it, as opposed to the other things you might do with that kind of dough.
It seems excessive on first glance, but people at University doing high-demand courses can rack up bills in the several tens of thousands of dollars.

[newkid]

Originally Posted by ratmandtotti

Hello all! I have some serious questions here that may affect my future and I need some advice from some of you experts that either work in the field of audio recording or that know someone that does. I recently dropped out of the university I was attending, the University of Toronto which is pretty much the canadian equivalent to a college in the United States. I attempted majoring in computer science but I just couldn't keep up partially cause I had absolutely no experience using any programming language from high school but also cause I never got help when I should have gotten it. I am currently gonna try to find a temporary job at a grocery store or some other place to gather up a bit of money. Anyways, I've been looking at enrolling myself into a college or one of those audio engineering institutions. The first I've checked out so far is Metalworks in Mississauga, just outside Toronto. Has anyone heard of it?

Metalworks link: Metalworks Institute of Sound and Music Production - Canada's Elite Entertainment Arts School - Mississauga, Ontario

Another is Fanshawe College in London, Ontario: Next Academic Year, Music Industry Arts, Fanshawe College

Do you guys think these schools are worth it? Metalworks for instance costs about 20,000$ for a one year program and almost 40,000$ for a two year program. Fanshawe on the other hand is much cheaper. Metalworks is a pro studio however and has apparently recorded famous artists, bands and rappers including Our Lady Peace, D12, David Bowie, Alexisonfire and tons of others. They've even done recording for movies like Cars and Chicago. They've got a Neve mixing board that costs 1.2 million dollars I think. In fact, they've got 9 studios all together. I swear I'm not promoting for the company but it is a pretty impressive place. I just don't know if going there will really help to land me a job. They do a good job at talking about things but I just don't know if they'll really help you in the end.

Anyways, I love music and everything that goes with it. Unfortunately, I feel that I'm not the greatest musician but I do have enough musical knowledge to get by since I've studied piano since I was a kid, I've been playing guitar for a good 6 to 7 years and I've been listening to music since I was in my mom's womb. In terms of recording, I've been using Logic Pro for the past year and a half and I've briefly explored Pro Tools, Cubase and Reason 4. I also have experience with my all time favourite plugins Toontrack and Guitar Rig 3. Unfortunately, I'm still a real amateur at compressing and EQing. I've also gone through about 4 different audio interfaces in the past 5 to 6 years starting with an m-audio fast-track usb to an alesis io 14 to a digidesign mbox 2 which I stole from my school cause I was so desperate to try Pro Tools and now an Apogee Duet, which I legally purchased at a local Long and McQuade.

Ok and for my last few questions: Is it actually possible to survive in the music industry today as a recording engineer/artist? And does going to one of those schools help in any way?

If anyone can give me any advice, either post it here in this thread or you can also email me at julienfalcone@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance to anyone that responds,

Julien Falcone

*I'm lost right now man!*

stop stealing

no you cant survive workign in the music industry today
those school will not help at all for a career
that type fo school promises much but delivers little
and takes a lot more money than you can afford to throw away
especially considering how you have to steal interfaces

if you dont know something about music already
why will that school be different than the CS you tried?
but since you do know something
those schools will be a waste for you - expensive and inefficient

not going to get you a job
and you will never see another million dollar board in yoru life

buy a pc and an audio interface and stick with that one
couple of mikes
and a decent DAW program - pick one and MASTER using it

then learn the techniques yourself by doing it

save 38000$Cd and get more hands on time

there are plenty of books that tell you how
tehre are DVD courses that show you how
all a lot cheaper

if your other school couldnt help you with cs
these schools will be the same for music

look at brandons bookset for a pittance that tells you how to do all the stuff

[ratmandtotti]

Guys don't worry about the stealing part. It's the only thing I've ever stolen in my life and it's not like anyone in the school was even using it. Plus, it doesn't even work properly. My music teacher probably would have given it to me its that useless to the school. You see I went to an underfunded french school in English speaking Ontario and things worked differently there.

[fsiplas]

You know, people talk about all these expensive school, but the other guys here are right. No one is gonna hire you because you went to X-school. They're more interested in your demo reel and what you can do for them.

I go to a community college and major in Broadcasting, because that's the only affordable place around here that I could get any audio schooling. The audio professor there has been an an engineer for a very long time, and has worked in major televison broadcasts, live music events, etc. etc. and has his own recording studio that he runs. We (his students) have - on multiple occassions - taken tours of other big-name hotshot schools' recording studios and have made their students look like idiots. I'm learning just as much, if not more, at a $2,000-per-year school than kids going to $20,000-a-year schools.

My point? Don't go to a school just because it has a studio that's worth a bazillion dollars (or whatever the Canadian/USD conversion is on that one, ha).

[newkid]

Originally Posted by fsiplas

You know, people talk about all these expensive school, but the other guys here are right. No one is gonna hire you because you went to X-school. They're more interested in your demo reel and what you can do for them.

I go to a community college and major in Broadcasting, because that's the only affordable place around here that I could get any audio schooling. The audio professor there has been an an engineer for a very long time, and has worked in major televison broadcasts, live music events, etc. etc. and has his own recording studio that he runs. We (his students) have - on multiple occassions - taken tours of other big-name hotshot schools' recording studios and have made their students look like idiots. I'm learning just as much, if not more, at a $2,000-per-year school than kids going to $20,000-a-year schools.

My point? Don't go to a school just because it has a studio that's worth a bazillion dollars (or whatever the Canadian/USD conversion is on that one, ha).

+1
i said tha tmany times. go the local community college
lots cheaper

just as much educational valu e maybe more

[cloy26]

So funny this thread popped up. I have been wrestling with the same question for a month now. I'm 20 years old about to finish my AA up at a local community college with a focus on business. My original plan was to transfer to a univeristy (UCF) and major in Real Estate or Marketing. Well, I love music and always have. I am in a band with amazing potential right now (both musically and hook up-wise) and want to do music for a career. I have posted on forums like a clueless child looking for the magic answer I wanted to hear. Well, I never got the answer that solidified my decsion. Truth is, you have to weight out your options. Paying that much money to attend a fancy school is absurd. The cost of that education doesn't reflect the outlook of being an AE at all... I would pay that much for a bachelors degree in some sort of medical field, but not recording.

Let's face it, the vast majority of guys in the biz aren't that well off. The reason they do it is because they love music, and they love doing what they do. You REALLY have to ask yourself, "Will I be OK scrapping by? Will I be comfortable maybe not being able to support a family right from the start? Will I be ok working odd and long hours staring at a computer screen?" I personally have asked these questions and came up with a plan that I think may work well for me.

I plan to attend a community college in Orlando, FL (Valencia) and complete their AS degree in Sound Technology. After that, I plan on working somewhere with that degree for a terrible wage and barely scraping by while I push myself through 2 more years in school to attain a Bachelors in Business. So, in 4 years, I hope to be sitting with 2 degrees. A 4 year degree in business and a 2 year degree in Sound Technology. The ultimate goal is to own my own studio, after learning/interning and learning all that I can for a terrible wage. But like I said, the guys in this business don't do it for the money. If you do, you'll end up an unhappy person your entire life. Also, I don't necessarily rule out other jobs in the industry. I would LOVE to run sound for a venue or be a sound guy for a tour. Life is about experiences and I am not going to turn them down. You have to be open minded.

Ask yourself if you plan on being ok with a mediocre wage for your entire life... If you can honestly say wholeheartedly that you are ok with it, then I suggest you learn as much as you can from these forums and attend a community college and finish a program there.

2 of my bandmates go to Full Sail University in Orlando. Well, they sent me some of their powerpoints and lectures. I can honestly say, you are paying to use the SSL mixing board. lol. The notes are nothing special and actually rather basic. You are paying for the name or "prestige" tat goes along with the school. IMO, it isn't worth it. Just as many engineers "make it" without an inflated education.

Being an AE isn't a glorious job at all. You don't do the job for the title of "omg I'm a recording d00d". You have to posses the love of music. You have to take a song and make it the best you can make it from a technical standpoint and a creative one. You have to know the craft and develop and identity and style and make it grow.

Just meditate on your options for a while and you will pick the right one. Find out what you love, and pursue it with all of your heart.

[ratmandtotti]

Thanks so much for all the responses! Thanks especially cloy26, for your response. I'm so glad to know that someone who's around the same age as me (I'm currently 19) is going through the same type of thing I am. I'll probably end up checking out Fanshawe college since I hear a lot of good things about the school and they're tuition is at least half the cost of Metalworks and also includes room and board.
The main reason I'm looking to go to a recording school is more to meet people that have the same evil desire as me, which is to record music all the time. I love learning on my own by just browsing through the different recording forums for information but I really think that can only get me so far and it doesn't give me enough exposure to the industry.