Advice on mixing Stems

[shminkydj]

I recently watched a tutorial on mixing Stems... and i have recently heard a couple of people mention it in this Forum.
Question
Is the idea to bounce your track down into stereo parts except for the bass which Stgays mono.
then to stick it thru an analogue desk to "sum up" all the parts to give you a Final "****ed up" mix
Or do you **** up each stereo part in the anologue desk and finish mix in the Box.
Question.
In the Tutorial they used a TLA Audio valve console as the analogue connection in the process.......It seems to be a top bit of kit from what i have read.
Would i get any Sonic benefit by using my Mackie 24/8/2 in this part of the process....
Compared to using say Waves SSL plugins and summing up in the box.

I intend to take the mix to a pro mastering Studio to finish the project....He will be putting the mix thru a
Milennia twincom TCL compressor
GML 8200 parametric eq
Manley plutec eqs
Alesis Master link
Argosy Console Desk

All of which Sounds very impressive but means nothing to me!!!!
Surley this would take Care of the analogue part of the equation " ****ing up" the mix

I know there isnt an exact right or wrong in Audio enginering but your opinions would be most welcome.

I have reached this stage of the process in my current recording so any advice would be usefull at this time

[Gitarted]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with mixing on a console.

The idea of stems is very much the same as using the bus routing on a console.

basically, the idea is when mixing ITB you usually end up setting up busses for your drums, guitars, vox ...

then, instead of continuing to remain ITB you route your busses (stems) to external hardware such as an analog console, or outboard processors to give it the more natural sonic quality analog gear has.

Depending on the ammount of outboard gear you have to work with, even just running your stems through the channel strips on an analog desk and summing to the master two buss will give you a whole 'nuther level of control (depending on the quality of your outboard/desk)

In the end I have found that when I mix this way, my mixes do sound (to my ears) wider and more natural.

YMMV

[kyle barton]

most people have a limited number of conversion (i only have 8 ) so when your song has 20, 30, 50 parts/tracks in the DAW, you have to do a submix of these into the number of channels of conversion that you can deal with.

you would only go back out to the analog world if...
1. you perceived that mixing in the analog world sounded better (i don't hear THAT much difference)

2. you perceived that mixing in the analog world was easier and more intuitive ( i definitely think this is true for me) and thus translated to a better mix overall.

3. you had some analog gear that you wanted to get involved at mix-time. like nice compressors or EQs or analog effects, etc.

the stems are the stereo pairs of submixes that you take to the analog world to mix. you might create a stereo pair for drums and bass, another for your guitars, another for the vocals and bg vocals, etc.

i'd love to have another 8 channels of conversion, but then i'd also need a total of 16 channels in my mixer, and i only currently have 12. so it's a different level of expense as well.

hope that helps

[shminkydj]

Originally Posted by Gitarted

In the end I have found that when I mix this way, my mixes do sound (to my ears) wider and more natural.

YMMV

This is my point........I have always thought that the mix would benefit from analogue processing......But it is a question of equipment.....
Will my Mackie 24 8 2 desk have any sonic benefit over my waves ssl plugins.....when you take into consideration the fact that the track will be mastered with top notch analogue gear any way....
I intend to bounce the whole track down into stereo stems anyway because i have heard mixing down 5 0r 6 stereo audio tracks will sound better than mixing down 30 tracks of Audio and Midi

[sfxman]

Sidenote: I've heard that alot of mastering engineers prefer to get mix stems rather than 1 stereo file. That way, they can deal with any specific problem areas without affecting the rest of the mix quite as much as in the past. Of course, the delivered stems need to sum in to a complete mix. The idea is not that the masterer trmic your stuff so much as that he/she has more mastering control by using stems. Anyhoo.

[shminkydj]

Originally Posted by sfxman

Sidenote: I've heard that alot of mastering engineers prefer to get mix stems rather than 1 stereo file. e has more mastering control by using stems. Anyhoo.

This is exactly the conclusion i had come to. The whole idea of mixing down the stems thru an analogue desk to **** it up really apeals to me. But I am not gonna get the quality of analogue processing i would be getting in a top Mastering Studio.
Even if you do your whole mix in the box Mastering in a good Studio should be enough to **** up the mix!!!

[richiebee]

Stem mixing itself has nothing to do with wanting to mix in analog and simply refers to mixing down to logical subgroups to make mxing the final product easier, or to facilitate more channels than would otherwise be available.. It has actually been around since the sixties, when everything was analog!

[shminkydj]

Got to say.....Just mixing the 30 or so tracks into 5 stereo tracks, seperate bass in mono....Has made all the difference to the track. I seem to have the seperation i have strived for.Something about the DAW when there is a lot of stuff happenng it sounds as if every sound is fighting for space....taking the stems to mastering studio......I think this will be the way foward for me in the future!

[brandondrury]

He will be putting the mix thru a
Milennia twincom TCL compressor
GML 8200 parametric eq
Manley plutec eqs
Alesis Master link
Argosy Console Desk

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but who cares! All that fancy gear is really fun in the right hands and completely useless in the wrong hands. The "hands" part is what should excite you. (Both your hands and your mastering dude's hands).

You are using the w a r m word quite a bit in your description of analog summing. It's easy to be tricked into thinking these little things like summing are a huge deal. This is a game of inches, but only after you have gone through miles to get to that point. Post a tune in Recording Reviews. I'll tell you if I think you could benefit from summing. Most people aren't in this league yet.

Depending on the ammount of outboard gear you have to work with, even just running your stems through the channel strips on an analog desk and summing to the master two buss will give you a whole 'nuther level of control

It's interesting that you commented on "level of control" and not on "better". I think this is a probably a fairly accurate description.

I hear there are advantages to analog summing verse using the digital algorithm of summing. One of these years I'll probably end up going this route. However, I wouldn't expect it to sound "w a r m e r". A)I don't know what that even means. B)If a mix isn't already sounding badass, it won't matter what kind of 2bus you use. C)I'd expect the benefit of analog summing to be more about sound stage and width.

Will my Mackie 24 8 2 desk have any sonic benefit over my waves ssl plugins

Uhh. This doesn't make sense to me. You are asking if the Mackie mixer (eq, level controls, and panning) will sound better than compressor plugins. You are comparing apples and bowling balls.

You should be asking yourself if analog based summing is going to get you where you want to be faster / easier than algorithm based summing. It may!

Sidenote: I've heard that alot of mastering engineers prefer to get mix stems rather than 1 stereo file.

I talked to Eric Conn about this. His opinion was that he's a mastering engineer and not a mixing engineer. Either a mix sounds good or it doesn't. I can see why a mastering engineer would want stems, but this is not much different than engineers who use sample replacement to make up for sub par drum performances. In other words, mastering engineers who prefer stems are doing so because they don't have to put their name on crappy mixes and would rather have the control. It has it's merits, but it shows that the rest of the chain is flawed. Not a good sign.

Even if you do your whole mix in the box Mastering in a good Studio should be enough to **** up the mix!!!

Why would a mix NEED ****ing up? Mastering is there to make an album sound cohesive. It's not about enhancing anything.

Brandon

[shminkydj]

[QUOTE=brandondrury;31681]t Post a tune in Recording Reviews. I'll tell you if I think you could benefit from summing. Most people aren't in this league yet.
Easy Mate....
So i stuck the track in the recording review for your Judgement, under the title "take the pepsi challenge"
I will post the Studio Mastered version tomrrow.
By the way the thing about my waves SSL plugins against my Mackie desk
In the SSL bundle there is a Channel strip with eq, panning and loads of other fancy stuff. I have been inserting these on various Channels to use the eq etc.
So would my Waves SSL plugin channel Strip have any Sonic advantage over a Channel Strip in My Mackie Desk.
Thanks for everyones help and advice so far