Acoustic Guitars With No Low End?

[brandondrury]

Hey dudes,

I was wondering if anyone had any favorite acoustic guitars for studio work. I'm looking for an acoustic guitar that has practically zero low end. I don't like the muddy acoustic guitar sound and most of the songs I use it with are gonna have bass and drums.

Yesterday I was using a mondo expensive Taylor 814CE for my acoustic guitar mic shootouts. What a pain in the ass! The low end on this thing was fun when playing around, but the second I strummed my first chord I said "Oh shit! How am I gonna get around that???". It was just too big of a sound and simply tossing a high pass filter on it was not the solution.

I'm looking for an acoustic guitar where I can put a mic 12" from the 12th fret and not sound like a Nelly song even when strumming in a way to avoid the boom. I want a guitar that brightens up when I strum mega hard. I suspect what I'm looking for is going to be a budget guitar.

Brandon

[TonyB]

My Ovation Applause doesn't have that low end so I use that when I don't want the big, fat Martin or Taylor sound.

[garageband]

I want a guitar that brightens up when I strum mega hard.

A relative of mine had this mid-'70s D18 that when played quietly was very controlled and the only way to get it to open up was to really lay into it. Even then, it hardly bassy or honky or uneven.

[String7th]

I just recorded a band that had 1 acoustic song. I used 2 small diaphram condensors 4 feet above his head about 3 feet apart, facing straight down. I also but a large diaphram condensor near the body and was able to fine tune how much low end I wanted. The only problem was too much room sound. I should have put him in my control room where I have some treatment, it ended up too bright and not enough low end.

It was a mid/low-priced Ibanez acoustic.

[garww]

Fill it with packing peanuts and lighten the problem strings ??

[Audio~Geek]

You can probably do the trick with mic placement and selection. Face it away from the sound hole, instead of pointing the cardioid mic from the left at the 12th, come in from the right. Hopefully the boomyness will be in the null of the pattern. Try a figure 8. Try moving back further. 12" from a guitar is going to be a pretty unnatural tone. A guitar is about 3 feet long, start miking it 3 feet away.
My preference is cardioids spaced pair above the guitar, over the guitarist's shoulders.

Also consider high-strung/nashville tuning. High-strung guitars. Tell me everything you know. - The Womb

[String7th]

Fill it with packing peanuts and lighten the problem strings ??

Fill the guitar with packing peanuts?

How do you get them out?

[garww]

Fill the guitar with packing peanuts?

How do you get them out?

The same way you get the wayward pick out. The 135 in my ICON was filled with peanuts for many years back in the '70s.

[brandondrury]

You can probably do the trick with mic placement and selection.

I'm with you, but I've recorded guitars that didn't require me to work hard in the past. The idea is to find an instrument to keep around that I can count on. I've seen way too many videos and such in the studios where engineers obviously don't have this boom problem.

The Figure 8 technique sounds interesting. I may have to add that to Killer Home Recording: Acoustic Guitar.

I do agree that my mic placement ends up being a good 24"...sometimes further, but it can get a bit roomy in a way that isn't flattering to all styles of music. I guess I could quit being lazy and toss up some Rockwool or blankets.

Brandon

[Audio~Geek]

sounds like your room is not right for this guitar.

[dcisive]

I'm surprised you're having such difficulty with this. I've been recording acoustic guitars now for the last 20 years and it has been the same. First I generally do as you, I prefer that position approximately where the neck joins the body, angled upward and less than a foot from the guitar. I use a parametric EQ and notch out the offending low frequency by about 3db with a high Q (narrow not wide). I sweep it to find just exactly where I want to be. I move the mic's angle so as to capture the ideal character of the instrument and eliminate the potential whoofy or boxy character that can come on if you don't get the angle right. Play with the angle towards the neck vs. body to achieve this as well. Thus far I've had great results with a Taylor 510ce dreadnaught body, which frankly has substantial low end, just in this case I dial in the mic and eq the bottom end carefully notching out the offending frequency. It is very important to use a high Q or you can remove too much of the good character as well. I love using the Sennheiser e610 small diaphram condensor with a good preamp (like the Focusrite ISA220). I also enjoy using the Rode NT1-A as it has a nice upper register bump aiding the air from the guitar. Hope this helps ya.

[MattGras]

Thats weird, i find that my 814 is rather low in the low-end department. What strings are you using and how old are they? The elixers that taylor recommends, take a good amount of time to break in, and when you break them in, the guitar actually becomes BRIGHTER (because of some of the coating wearing off). Also, i find my taylors tone is heavily effected by humidity, so maybe the environment is responsible for this issue. Or it might jsut be a case of the guitar and the room not matching well.

[brandondrury]

sounds like your room is not right for this guitar.

That's definitely a possibility. I guess I need to test this one in my shootouts. In either of my two rooms I've done 99.99% of my recording in, I've always struggled with acoustic guitars with big low end. I've had a few acoustics that have turned out very well but in general the big low end guitars cause me headaches.

I move the mic's angle so as to capture the ideal character of the instrument and eliminate the potential whoofy or boxy character that can come on if you don't get the angle right. Play with the angle towards the neck vs. body to achieve this as well.

I'll toy with this and see if I have any luck.

Brandon

[dcisive]

I also keep a loaded humifier in my 510 at all times. I'm in Utah which average humidity is below 15% on average so it needs it. I find great consistency when it is used. If I skip a week the guitar is NOT happy and comes out of the case out of tune. When the humidfier is used it stays in tune continually. As for brightness I've not noticed any appreciable difference in tone when I put those Elixer's on over time. They are highly consistent which I really like, and stay in tune better than any other string I've ever used over the 45 years I've been playing. Interestingly enough I also prefer the "Light" gauge strings to the mediums. I don't require ultimate volume as I'm recording nearly exclusively and not live. Also they produce longer and more lively harmonics to the medium's. Also easier on the fingers and nice for hammer on's as well.

[Post Toastie]

Brandon -

Alvarez. a cheapie sounds great and records well with no bottom end. sounds great played back.

[garww]

Just stuff it with packing peanuts. Or, whatever.

[AcousticFella]

Nothing immediately to do with recording (about which I know nothing much) and lots to do with guitar playing (about which I know a bit more).
1. Tune your guitar to an open chord. (suggest DADF#AD). No fingers needed (you'll see why in a second).
2. Play the chord and listen to the sound.
3. Turn the guitar upside down.
4. Play the chord and listen to the sound.

I assume you'll hear loads MORE bass with the guitar upside down - you just can't normally hear all that bass from where you are sitting. The sound out front of course is (roughly) half way between the two sounds you have just heard. Whatever way it works out - there is lots more bass in your guitar than you are used to hearing.

So; two points:
1. The mic will receive more bass than you are used to. So there is a shock factor that you need to get used to.
2. BECAUSE you can't hear the bass, the chances are that you have developed a playing technique that compensates for your own listening experience. IE, we all tend to lean into the bass strings to work them harder. We don't need to do this as much as we think. Try to counter- this with your playing.

Obviously, Electric Guitarist don't suffer from this so much - their sound isn't coming up from their stomachs.

Having said all that ... I spent all my money on a Martin HD28 which I loved, but could never get the bass down enough. Eventually I spent all the bank's money on a Martin 00028. It solved my bass problems. Sadly not my cash flow problems.

[Rockerdude]

I just got a wechter pathmaker. This is a great sounding guitar for the money.It has really low action, small neck and sounds very good pluged in.It plays like an electric that's why I like it.

[Metaltyme]

My Dean Exotica has great tone and little to no low end, unless of course you strum near the neck. It's always bright, but with no harshness. It does respond very well to your strum, depending on how bright you need it to be. It's the kind of pleasant brightness you'd hear in a sparkly cascaded waterfall (that might be pushing it a little, actually). It's pretty, and it's not expensive. If I were you, I'd check it out.

[P.P.T.]

Try what is sometimes called Nashville Tuning.

They replace the 3 lowest strings with light gauge, unwound strings.

[brandondrury]

I ended up finding EXACTLY what I was looking for. The old Martins from the 1950s and 1960s have it. It's the small body kind with no cutaway. I don't know what you call it.

Here's the basic shape. I'm not sure if all of them have THAT sound, but I've played on 4 of these boogers and they all had it.


Now I just need to find a way to get this sound for about 1/10th the price.

Brandon

[garww]

I finally got around to testing my rig today. I'm posting the clip so you can consider silk wound. I asked about strings for intimate recording some time back and decided to try some Martin.

The guitar is a cheap Cedar Ridge I got off eBay for $120 shipped with hard case.

I have a much cheaper Global Audio LDC 2400 off axis some distance from my strummer. I just did one take to study. I got too much pick on this run. Towards the end I loose the pick and do some thumb/fingernail strum at moderate, barely heavy. Unedited. I figure my AT fones are fairly close to your 50's.

[brandondrury]

The guitar is a cheap Cedar Ridge I got off eBay for $120 shipped with hard case.

Wow! That is an outstanding acoustic guitar! I will be buying one!

I figure my AT fones are fairly close to your 50's.

Yes and no. In terms of objective fidelity, both instruments sound great. However, comparing a Marshall Plexi with a Fender Twin doesn't really make sense. They do totally different things. Comparing a Dreadnought with a small body doesn't necessarily make sense either because they, too, do different things.

I knew right away (before looking at the pics) that your guitar was a full body guitar. It keeps it's low end in check (which is awesome!) but it definitely has low end.

When I posted this guitar thread, I wasn't posting it because I had a problem with my recordings, necessarily. I had a problem in that there was a sound in my head that I didn't know how to obtain. It turns out that the sound I'm after is the small body acoustic sound.

So does anyone know of any $120 small body guitars that have the "objective fidelity" of the Cedar Ridge?

I'm about to do some research on this Cedar Ridge company!

Brandon

[bholst]

I ended up buying one of these for about a couple hundred bucks, and it's a BLAST to play! Might be another option too (it's a parlor size)

A&L Series

I think it'll work great for slide blues, etc too

I've been so happy with the feel of it, that I ended up installing a fishman matrix pickup in it for live gigs. The tone has been great! Deceivingly big tone from such a small guitar in a PA, but I wouldn't want to record it that way. Anyway, check it out.

[garww]

I played on a cheap classical for years that made me think silk wound would also be a less boomy bet for recording a folk-type 6-string. I just wanted to add that I felt it has some merit.

There isn't much for Cedar Ridge on the net. The seller had it BIN for $160 and I let it slide. When he reposted at $120, I took the bait it.

There are usually a few Kay type parlor guitars on eBay.